Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
WTF, Spanks?
https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1061595280720703489It’s like he just saw his hero.
Check out where Melania's eyes are glued to.
Just Sayin'.
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
WTF, Spanks?
https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1061595280720703489It’s like he just saw his hero.
Check out where Melania's eyes are glued to.
Just Sayin'.
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
Monkeys typing wrote:
I don't think it's up to the Democrats, it's up to the Republicans. They have to view not supporting Trump as the more attractive option. If Trump's approval rating were to drop to 33% (taking your 1/3 literally) we're probably there.
The publicly available information hasn't done that yet, but if Mueller has sufficient evidence to indict Kushner, Don Jr, and/or (maybe) Stone the house of cards could crumble.
It doesn't change much. The fascists/racists love Trump. Once the economy contracts, Trump loses probably half his base. But, he's still delivering the racist/fascist policies that delivers votes.
The consequence in the next election cycle is the people that get elected on the Right, are even further to the Right promoting MORE fascist/racist policy, not less. The Right lit this tire fire over a decade ago and now there is no putting it out.
This makes it very difficult for any kind of moderate democratic (democracy, not the party) process. This has the potential to plunge the country into the typical poorly functioning fascist State.
relatedly, interesting story that may be true. The hard voting data aren't in yet but this seems to have happened:
In the agricultural districts that vote for Trump more than any other, even the ones getting killed by the trade wars (soy demand down 80%, etc), you would think Trump would lose support. I mean those farmers are pretty much the only ones taking a personal beating from the president.
But no. The contrary. The billions of dollars they are losing has put the farmers on a war attitude - thinking 'we're under assault - we either hang together or we'll hang separately.' In other words, terrible economic conditions firmed up Trump's base, not weakened it.
This is the thing with elections decided not on policy, but on personality. There are no conservatives anymore - there are Democrats and Trumpists. Trumpists will support Trump anywhere he goes - policy doesn't matter.
o my god, this is true
Fat hurts wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
[sigh]
They aren't legally or Constitutionally bound to impeach him if Mueller's report shows what most voters consider to be impeachable offenses. Dude...I didn't think I had to explain stuff to YOU. They will be forced to by threat of losing their jobs in the next election. Democrat members of Congress will have a VERY hard time getting elected if Mueller's report shows Obstruction of Justice and other such crimes and they do not start the impeachment process.
The WILL do it if that report shows what most of us believes it will. It is more than worth the risk even if the Senate ultimately doesn't convict. Shows they believe in the rule of law. Shows they did the right thing and can say to their constituents that they did the right thing. Gets another Republican on the history list as someone who was impeached or was threatened with impeachment. Besides, after the House impeaches, you never know how the country will react (or how Trump will react) and what pressure is put on Senate members depending on what the report says.
Obstruction of Justice
Money Laundering
Emoluments Clause Violation
Conspiracy against the United States or Conspiracy to Defraud the United States
Bank Fraud
Wire Fraud
FELONY Campaign Finance Law Violation
Perjury (if he ever talked under oath)
Many possible other charges including hacking
What do you need to throw out to make it a report that would not force the hand of Democrats in the House who want to be re-elected? Just Conspiracy? Obstruction of Justice and Perjury were enough for Clinton to be impeached. Emoluments Clause Violation is a BIG DEAL. Committing a FELONY to help get himself elected (which Cohen basically has said he did) is a big deal.
All depends on the report. It will be damning. The House WILL impeach him.
I've already said that the pressure on Democrats to impeach will be enormous. And they might very well follow through.
I'm saying what they SHOULD do. I'm not making predictions about what they WILL do.
Impeachment is still a really, really bad idea unless 67 senators are ready to go along.
Tiny would almost certainly be acquitted and he would come out of it stronger than ever. Is that a risk you want to take?
Yes. I think you have to follow the rule of law and the guidelines that are set in the Constitution. If we never impeach someone for fear they might get stronger, then why even have the process?
TTH wrote:
guarantee wrote:
That is 'your' 100% guarantee.
As close as we can get.
You do not understand the difference between the words 'your' and 'we.'
agip wrote:
No matter what Mueller and SDNY tells us about trump's crimes, a third of voters will support potus with whatever rationalization they want. Those people have gone past the line of reason and democracy into NK style personality cult.
tens of millions of Americans will believe crazy conspiracy theories about impeachment and Mueller - this is going to be so horrible for the fabric of the nation.
The question for the dems is whether or not to go easy, to try to keep that 1/3 part of the nation in the fold or just write them off as a lunatic fringe that nothing could be done to save.
After the civil war Lincoln chose forgiveness. I think that's the right choice, and the Dems should go easy on Trump. Not out of respect for a criminal, but to hold the nation together.
I am surprised to hear you and Fat Hurts say this. This is behavior that we should not allow from our President, and if he gets away with it, what is there to stop the next despot wannabe from coming in and taking things even further? What if that despot is 38 years old? We could end up with a dictator in this country for decades minimum. I have children that I don't want to have to grow up under such oppression. Letting a criminal off the hook whose campaign so obviously conspired with at LEAST one other country to help him win this election, is not the right thing. We can not look at this from a political viewpoint. It must be from a rule of law viewpoint.
This is of course assuming Mueller's report has the goods. As I have long said, if Mueller determines Trump did nothing wrong, I will accept that.
TTH wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
I say again that House Democrats will really have no choice other than to impeach assuming the Mueller report is as bad as we think it will be...and it WILL be.
You have no idea what's going to be in the report you babbling boob.
It's called a prediction, brother.
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
agip wrote:
No matter what Mueller and SDNY tells us about trump's crimes, a third of voters will support potus with whatever rationalization they want. Those people have gone past the line of reason and democracy into NK style personality cult.
tens of millions of Americans will believe crazy conspiracy theories about impeachment and Mueller - this is going to be so horrible for the fabric of the nation.
The question for the dems is whether or not to go easy, to try to keep that 1/3 part of the nation in the fold or just write them off as a lunatic fringe that nothing could be done to save.
After the civil war Lincoln chose forgiveness. I think that's the right choice, and the Dems should go easy on Trump. Not out of respect for a criminal, but to hold the nation together.
Dems lost bigly in the Senate and Mcconnell is riding fascism like a wave to get his agenda accomplished.
Whatever they can source to start impeachment won't make it through the Senate. It's been long standing policy that the Justice Department won't prosecute Presidential crimes.
Democrats have to be very careful otherwise hearings get relegated to "Benghazi" time-wasters.
1) Most pro-senate map for Republicans in 100 years, so not really indicative of anything with regard to Democrats.
2) It is NOT a long standing policy that the "Justice Department won't prosecute Presidential crimes". The policy is that they won't indict a SITTING PRESIDENT. Nixon was going to be prosecuted and Ford pardoned him. They can and very well might indict him after he is out of office, and some of those might be state crimes, so Pence can't pardon those.
3) Whether it is a time waster or not depends on what Mueller's report says...AND what Trump's actions are from here on. This Whitaker appointment and Sessions firing are the actions of a guilty man.
Flagpole wrote:
agip wrote:
No matter what Mueller and SDNY tells us about trump's crimes, a third of voters will support potus with whatever rationalization they want. Those people have gone past the line of reason and democracy into NK style personality cult.
tens of millions of Americans will believe crazy conspiracy theories about impeachment and Mueller - this is going to be so horrible for the fabric of the nation.
The question for the dems is whether or not to go easy, to try to keep that 1/3 part of the nation in the fold or just write them off as a lunatic fringe that nothing could be done to save.
After the civil war Lincoln chose forgiveness. I think that's the right choice, and the Dems should go easy on Trump. Not out of respect for a criminal, but to hold the nation together.
I am surprised to hear you and Fat Hurts say this. This is behavior that we should not allow from our President, and if he gets away with it, what is there to stop the next despot wannabe from coming in and taking things even further? What if that despot is 38 years old? We could end up with a dictator in this country for decades minimum. I have children that I don't want to have to grow up under such oppression. Letting a criminal off the hook whose campaign so obviously conspired with at LEAST one other country to help him win this election, is not the right thing. We can not look at this from a political viewpoint. It must be from a rule of law viewpoint.
This is of course assuming Mueller's report has the goods. As I have long said, if Mueller determines Trump did nothing wrong, I will accept that.
sure, it depends what is in the mueller report and when it comes out.
if it is just campaign finance crimes...no impeachment.
I seriously doubt anything will turn up incriminating trump with any sort of 1:1 dealings with russian intel. I mean they bribed him by overspending on real estate, but that's not really a crime.
The hard part is all the tax crime/bank fraud/wire fraud. Is that a high crime worthy of impeachment? I doubt it.
Obstruction is an opinion unless blatant. Which it might be.
But time is tight - Iowa caucuses are a little more than a year away. There's just not much time for impeachment too.
Obvioulsy Trump has done nothing that suggests he will try to keep power illegally. He has scrupulously followed federal court instructions, for ex.
Obvi we have to wait to see what happens with mueller.
Fat hurts wrote:
Remember, there are only four ways an authoritarian like Tiny leaves office:
1. Die in office
2. Thrown in prison
3. Flee to exile
4. Taken out back and shot
Most of you thought I was crazy the first time I said that. "Surely that can't happen in America", you thought. But I bet some of you are starting to see it my way.
Yeah you're still crazy
When a new President takes office in 2025 you will claim he's fleeing into exile and tell yourself you were right anyway though
your we wrote:
You do not understand the difference between the words 'your' and 'we.'
You do not understand much about what is happening politically.
TTH wrote:
your we wrote:
You do not understand the difference between the words 'your' and 'we.'
You do not understand much about what is happening politically.
TTH = Hardloper = BIGLY idiot
TTHloper wrote:
TTH wrote:
You do not understand much about what is happening politically.
TTH = Hardloper = BIGLY idiot
LOL … hardloper is one of the most pathetic trolls on LRC--jamin has him beat. He is a total moran.
I said that Trump cannot take the fifth in an impeachment trial because an impeachment trial is not a criminal trial. It’s a political trial.
The fifth amendment is for criminal charges.
Sure, he can refuse to speak but that action can be held against him.
A senator may ask, did you instruct Flynn to discuss sanctions with Russia in December 2016?
If Trump refuses to answer, they can take that as a yes.
Did you instruct Cohen to pay Stormy to help your election?
No answer can be taken as a yes.
Were you aware of Don Jr’s Russian meeting in July 2016 ahead of time?
No answer could be viewed as a yes.
Or he can answer the questions and add potential perjury charges.
He must defend himself. It would terrible if he didn’t.
And Trump would want to speak. He doesn’t have the self control to shut up.
TTH wrote:
If Trump's approval rating were to drop to 33% (taking your 1/3 literally) ...
The former isn't happening even if.......[/quote]
According to 538, Trump's approval rating has been in the 36's several times. Yes, it's certainly ticked up since then, but you are telling me that even though the he fell into the 36's, despite the fact that he had some superb economic #'s to tout, there is almost nothing that could befall him that could drop him only 3 more points lower than that??
Sorry, not buying it.
I will vote for Trump again just to see the show the crats are putting on. Its amusing.
Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
According to 538, Trump's approval rating has been in the 36's several times. Yes, it's certainly ticked up since then, but you are telling me that even though the he fell into the 36's, despite the fact that he had some superb economic #'s to tout, there is almost nothing that could befall him that could drop him only 3 more points lower than that??
Sorry, not buying it.
You can not buy it all you want but his base is that 36% and there's nothing changing their view.
TTHloper wrote:
TTH = Hardloper = BIGLY idiot
Now this is funny. Isn't Hardloper a strong righty Trump lover. I'm not a Trump lover. I just don't see things as Flaggy P does which is with a hope and a prayer.
L L wrote:
I said that Trump cannot take the fifth in an impeachment trial because an impeachment trial is not a criminal trial. It’s a political trial.
The fifth amendment is for criminal charges.
Sure, he can refuse to speak but that action can be held against him.
A senator may ask, did you instruct Flynn to discuss sanctions with Russia in December 2016?
If Trump refuses to answer, they can take that as a yes.
Did you instruct Cohen to pay Stormy to help your election?
No answer can be taken as a yes.
Were you aware of Don Jr’s Russian meeting in July 2016 ahead of time?
No answer could be viewed as a yes.
Or he can answer the questions and add potential perjury charges.
He must defend himself. It would terrible if he didn’t.
And Trump would want to speak. He doesn’t have the self control to shut up.
Trump could never withstand a grilling by nearly anyone. Think of him vs a committee such as Hilary did for 15 hours or whatever it was a few years ago. Trump would have completely melted down under those circumstances and probably given any committee and/or Robert Mueller another years worth of investigating to undertake. It would be interesting to see.
However, unless he can be compelled to "testify", he won't and he'll certainly fight any directive through the Supreme Court which is obviously in his favor currently. I don't think we ever hear from Trump under oath.
RoleTIDE wrote:
I will vote for Trump again just to see the show the crats are putting on. Its amusing.
f'in the country to own the libs