Torrence Speaks Out Against Lagat After 5k Final

squeakyclean wrote:

Leo Got Run Over wrote:

Well, it's true that Lagat was caught, and it's also true that when he and his coach found that politics had gotten them off went and asked WADA and the IAAF to issue an apology, and the orgs told Lagat and crew to EFF OFF OR THEY WOULD MAKE THE DETAILS OF THE WHOLE ORDEAL PUBLIC. Even the biggest PC weenie on earth, GH at TAFNews admits this is all true. Lagat is a cheat, always has been. But he has certain things going for him that will allow him to be protected lol.

That said, the whiteboys ran like cowardly cuck millennials and deserved to be losers. They let the Africans set up a wall lol.

Care to offer up some support for, I don't know, any of this?

Google it son. He is telling the truth. The IAAF told Lagat and his coach to shut up.

cHeATers Evaweah wrote:

squeakyclean wrote:

Care to offer up some support for, I don't know, any of this?

Google it son. He is telling the truth. The IAAF told Lagat and his coach to shut up.

Didn't find anything about Lagat being caught or IAAF threatening to make the details public.

Clerk wrote:

What I don't understand is how the argument was able to stand. The argument should follow that there was no opportunity for the b-sample to confirm or deny the a-sample, because it was obviously affected by not being frozen. Instead, the testifying doctors say that the affected sample somehow shows that the a-sample was a false positive.

And then I remember who the testifying doctor is, Marital Saugy..

What? You give reasons earlier for this question. Analysis by IEF will have to be human interpreted and is subject to operator error in performing it. It is essential that tests are performed in biological duplicate or more to assess guilt.

Because the B sample did not corroborate the A sample, no verdict on guilt can be made - so the default is innocent. The fact that the A sample did not provide a classic EPO patterns only strengthens this result.

I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread (I read the first 15 pages), but something that really does not sit right with me about Torrence's rant is how biased he is.

On one hand, he is PRAISING Leo for a massive jump in fitness prior to the 2012 trials, saying no one around him thought he'd make it out of the first round, but he advances, then wins the semi, wins the final and gets silver.

This jump in fitness is exactly the same thing he is using as 'proof' against Lagat. What gives?

I bookmarked this page.

rjm33 wrote:

...

Bingo rekrunner!!!……..(WTF???????!!!!!!!)

...

trackfan. wrote:

Surely the greatest talent of all time would have been obvious earlier in college and not after joining the pro-circuit ?

Also, are you saying he was under-trained at certain times on his career, how much faster could he have been at his peak?

Is he under-trained right now?

Why is that "surely"? He won NCAA titles and ran 3:30 while still in college. How is that not obvious greatest talent?? You also have to realize that top college runners don't time trial that often. If you look at Lagat's year to year progressions, you'll see his PB went backwards by 3 or 4 seconds. Do you really think his fitness went backwards, or that instead he just didn't get in a fast race?

TRUTH

cHeATers Evaweah wrote:

squeakyclean wrote:

Care to offer up some support for, I don't know, any of this?

Google it son. He is telling the truth. The IAAF told Lagat and his coach to shut up.

JofSteelMan wrote:

TRUTH

cHeATers Evaweah wrote:

Google it son. He is telling the truth. The IAAF told Lagat and his coach to shut up.

PROOF?

So Lagat's post age-40 5K PR is 13:14.xx when the world record sits at 12:37.35. The field lets the race go 13:35+ and is surprised when Lagat outkicks them all? Who are the fools here? The field played into BL's strength and got the predictable result.

I wonder how many people who don't find anything questionable about Lagat's performance have actually run seriously from their teens until they're 40. When the quest for the first sub 4:00 mile at age 40 began everyone thought that Boit, Dixon, and Walker would be able to do it based on the length of their careers and the 1500/mile times they were turning in in their mid to late 30s. And none could. Obviously Coughlin finally managed to but he was ONE guy running ONE race and couldn't have managed to close in 52. There's a reason age 40 was chosen initially as the age to start the masters division.

HRE wrote:

I wonder how many people who don't find anything questionable about Lagat's performance have actually run seriously from their teens until they're 40. When the quest for the first sub 4:00 mile at age 40 began everyone thought that Boit, Dixon, and Walker would be able to do it based on the length of their careers and the 1500/mile times they were turning in in their mid to late 30s. And none could. Obviously Coughlin finally managed to but he was ONE guy running ONE race and couldn't have managed to close in 52. There's a reason age 40 was chosen initially as the age to start the masters division.

Ever heard of Jack Foster? Probably not. Hints: M40 marathon WR held for 16 years; Olympic marathon 8th (age 40) and 17th age 44.

Ever heard of Andres Espinoza? Probably not. Hint: M40 marthon WR held for 12 years with a sub 2:09.

Using the "if it seems impossible for me to do, he must be doping" reasoning is wrong. I'm 33, and I can already tell that aging definitely puts a damper on running. However, I'm not getting paid to run and doing all the little things possible to keep myself in top shape. If I did, I see no reason why I couldn't run as well today as I did five or ten years ago. It doesn't blow my mind that someone who puts their whole life's focus on running could continue to run well into their 40's. It's not like the guy hasn't slowed down considerably...he has.

It's pointless to use logic and reason because the Lagat fanboys are immune to it. Just like Lance, Eddy, and Regina. Closing in 52 flat is completely normal at 41. Nothing to see here despite the fact that this has NEVER EVER HAPPENED before and the only remotely comparable events were by dirty athletes.

I don't hate Lagat. I'm just tired of dirty sport. And you idiots who refuse to face the obvious are just as much a part of the problem. You don't have the integrity to admit that you don't want Lagat to be dirty because you want to believe the fairly tale that a 41 year old can close a reasonably paced championship 5k in 52. You want to believe 3:26, 12:37 and 26:18 because they were run by "nice" guys who smile. Geb, Bekele, Lagat, El-G. C'mon guys, wake up sheeple!

llort_vbo wrote:

It's pointless to use logic and reason because the Lagat fanboys are immune to it. Just like Lance, Eddy, and Regina. Closing in 52 flat is completely normal at 41. Nothing to see here despite the fact that this has NEVER EVER HAPPENED before and the only remotely comparable events were by dirty athletes.

I don't hate Lagat. I'm just tired of dirty sport. And you idiots who refuse to face the obvious are just as much a part of the problem. You don't have the integrity to admit that you don't want Lagat to be dirty because you want to believe the fairly tale that a 41 year old can close a reasonably paced championship 5k in 52. You want to believe 3:26, 12:37 and 26:18 because they were run by "nice" guys who smile. Geb, Bekele, Lagat, El-G. C'mon guys, wake up sheeple!

Says the idiot who got schooled on Lagat closing in 51 in a sub 13 race? How did you not know about that?

You think that he did something not capable clean. You've no actual proof of it though, so it is just skepticism. What many are saying is that it is possible that he cheated but this isn't an outlier in his extremely successful career, so if he is doping it looks like he has been getting away for it for a long long time, and this race is just more of the same.

llort_vbo wrote:

It's pointless to use logic and reason because the Lagat fanboys are immune to it. Just like Lance, Eddy, and Regina. Closing in 52 flat is completely normal at 41. Nothing to see here despite the fact that this has NEVER EVER HAPPENED before and the only remotely comparable events were by dirty athletes.

I don't hate Lagat. I'm just tired of dirty sport. And you idiots who refuse to face the obvious are just as much a part of the problem. You don't have the integrity to admit that you don't want Lagat to be dirty because you want to believe the fairly tale that a 41 year old can close a reasonably paced championship 5k in 52. You want to believe 3:26, 12:37 and 26:18 because they were run by "nice" guys who smile. Geb, Bekele, Lagat, El-G. C'mon guys, wake up sheeple!

+10,000

The difference between Lagat and someone like Lance Armstrong is Lagat races well on a consistent basis. He's had very few poor races in his career. Armstrong was kind of mediocre at most races outside of the Tour de France.

I'll admit, I want to believe Lagat is clean...but I also don't see any clear evidence that he dopes or has doped. If I saw real evidence, outside of just running well, then I'd be fine with the piling on...but there is no evidence, outside of a very questionable A test in 2003. Over the last 13 years, there seems to be absolutely nothing that indicates doping, aside from running very well which really indicates nothing except he's an exceptional talent who trains intelligently.

I've heard of Espinoza. I actually knew Jack Foster. Ever heard of John Campbell? How about Jack Holden? Priscilla Welch? Joyce Smith? And then there's Meb. It's been solidly established that marathon runners can turn in world class performances into their forties. That's not what's being discussed here.

Right - so I'm the problem. Be mad at me because I'm pointing out the obvious. Keep fighting for your man, fanboy! He's gotta be clean because he's such a nice guy! If you ever took the time to plot up WR performances versus time and note when EPO became widely available, you'd see that virtually every WR performance since the late eighties is suspect.

Let's see:

1) unprecedented longevity

2) ridiculous PR - 3:26

3) failed 'A' in a time when many positives were known to be covered up

4) braces late in life

How f'ing stupid do you have to be to not see this.

HRE wrote:

I've heard of Espinoza. I actually knew Jack Foster. Ever heard of John Campbell? How about Jack Holden? Priscilla Welch? Joyce Smith? And then there's Meb. It's been solidly established that marathon runners can turn in world class performances into their forties. That's not what's being discussed here.

Fool, the point was about masters runner who ran exceptional world class times and held the M40 WR for a long time; 12 and 16 years. They are outliers same as Lagat.

Your ignorance is stellar.