Bert has always been suspected too. He even had two heart attacks supposedly due to his doping abuse. But nothing has been proven.
Bert has always been suspected too. He even had two heart attacks supposedly due to his doping abuse. But nothing has been proven.
truthsayer wrote:
Also should we make a list of those caught doping with epo or the similar and obviously got great benefit from it?
Rashid Ramzi
Brahim Boulami
Cathal Lombard
Liza Hunter Galvan
Regina Jacobs
Athanasaia Tsoumeleka
Jemel Chatbi
Eddy Hellebuyck
Deeja Youngquist
Mohammed Mourhit
Susan Pumper
Shetaye Gemechu
Alberto Garcia
Elena Antoci
Christina Vasiloiu
Khalid Zoubaa
Olga Yegorova
Helena Javornik
Alberico Di Cecco
Add more as you see fit and remember them
Mary Slaney
Marion Jones is NOT on that list since she never tested postive.
I wonder how many others, perhaps 1,000s of others, who never tested postitive, yet doped.
... But no Kenyan. So, which is the reason for thinking they are doped ?
Mzungu in Rift Valley. wrote:
... But no Kenyan. So, which is the reason for thinking they are doped ?
Add Raymond Tanui to the list then. See you've got your Kenyan now.
Bernard Lagat Wins 3,000m At USA Indoors And Makes It Look Easy
Uhm ... at 36 years of age. Interesting.
The theory that one improves in distance running with age is a fallacy. What once was not possible now the norm and accepted. These athletes careers are being extended through the use of PED's period.
I never heard of Raymond Tanui. Who is Raymond Tanui, and which results was able to reach ?
Estonia77 wrote:
Bernard Lagat Wins 3,000m At USA Indoors And Makes It Look Easy
Uhm ... at 36 years of age. Interesting.
The theory that one improves in distance running with age is a fallacy. What once was not possible now the norm and accepted. These athletes careers are being extended through the use of PED's period.
......... GEB ...........
tanui is the kenyan who was caught with epo in his posession in england. when confronted he admitted that he brought the drugs from kenya and said that he got them when his training partners in kenya recommended them.
why are so many runners taking thyroid medications now? will running high mileage harm my thyroids too?
serious question for anyone in the know.
raymundo wrote:
tanui is the kenyan who was caught with epo in his posession in england. when confronted he admitted that he brought the drugs from kenya and said that he got them when his training partners in kenya recommended them.
how did he get them thru customs ?
ventolin^3 wrote:
[quote]rekrunner wrote:But watching a sport from the stands, or on TV, is far less than bringing competitive athletes to the start line. I'm sure that even if you would accept the less well paid position of coaching, that you simply lack the qualifications
you seriously think that going on a coupla weeks coaching course & getting a certificate is some sort of outstanding achievement ??
already me & probably a few hundred readers here have vastly more science knowledge on biological science than any coach That is bs white boy, you dont no shit!!!
Estonia77 wrote:
Bernard Lagat Wins 3,000m At USA Indoors And Makes It Look Easy
Uhm ... at 36 years of age. Interesting.
The theory that one improves in distance running with age is a fallacy. What once was not possible now the norm and accepted. These athletes careers are being extended through the use of PED's period.
You have to be from certain protected groups to get away with doping these days. Look at how Lagat got off when caught red-handed. Publicly he proclaims a false positive, yet when his manager asked the IAAF to issue a story declaring Lagat's innocence, the IAAF told him to shut the fu&% up or they'd state what went on behind closed doors.
His "B" sample was negative, and they found his "A" sample was not properly handled, being exposed to prolonged periods of heat.When the "B" sample does not confirm the "A" sample result, doping charges are dropped, and the case is closed by the IAAF. Anyone in the "athlete" group receives this protection. Is this the certain "protected group" you mean, an "IAAF athlete"?
LongerCareerwithDrugs wrote:
You have to be from certain protected groups to get away with doping these days. Look at how Lagat got off when caught red-handed. Publicly he proclaims a false positive, yet when his manager asked the IAAF to issue a story declaring Lagat's innocence, the IAAF told him to shut the fu&% up or they'd state what went on behind closed doors.
Renato Canova wrote:
I arrived by car, together with the Technical Director Elio Locatelli (now the IAAF senior manager of Development), and in the lobby of the Hotel I met Brahim Boutayeb, Maroccan living in Italy, Olympic Champion of 10000m in Seoul (that in Tokyo, two months later, was able to win a bronze medal in 5000m). Brahim (currently coach of Jaouad Gharib) and Antibo were friends. Brahim called me, and told me : "Do you know if Tot� (the Italian friendly name of Antibo, full name is Salvatore) has some problem ?
.
So Antibo did some form of transfusion at least once.
And he was friends with or trained with Boutayeb and Brahim.
Thanks for those tidbits.
And Rekkie was arguing the drugs got no effect line 6 years ago.
He must be getting paid to do that, or he has a hidden agenda skin in the game.
The Independent:
"In the wake of revelations of organised drug distribution and blood doping by the Italian federation, Cova confessed he had used the process by which the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood is increased by the withdrawal and re-infusion of red blood cells. Blood doping, or blood boosting, can improve performances by 5 per cent.
Cova was never punished. He has a seat in the Italian parliament. He also has his tarnished gold medal, which is why McLeod settled for an early night on Tuesday. "These programmes never make any difference," he said. "People are still cheating and getting away with it. My personal opinion is that the problem is as bad as ever. I think it's just swept under the carpet."
rekrunner wrote:
A few dozen "epos ves+" in athletics alone? A few dozen! Wow, that is a lot. How many athletes take EPO? Many dozen? Several scores?
Who takes EPO? The ones who are not winning already. Of course your samples are biased. You are only looking at one class of athlete: the one who wasn't winning before, and started winning by doping. We don't know anything about how the "clean" winners would respond, because there is no anecdotal evidence.
In 1997 and 1998, two controlled studies found a form of altitude training (live high, train low) that resulted in an improvement of about 14 seconds after 4 weeks in 5000m time trials. This effect lasted 3 weeks. Controls at sea level, and controls that only trained high, did not show performance improvements. For our 1500m runners, this sounds like about 3-4 seconds.
Maybe, for athletes who "live high, and train low", they become low responders, because their RBC is already relatively high, from training that increased their natural EPO production. Likewise, for Kenyans and Ethiopians, who are already winning cleanly, they will get remarkably little benefit from EPO, due to their unique combination of genetics and environment bringing them a naturally high RBC.
Maybe, if Ramzi found another situation, another coach, and more optimal training techniques, he would have progressed to low 3:30s without EPO.
We don't have much data, except for a biased sample of a few anecdotes of athletes who were not winning, and decided to dope and got caught. To quote Dr. Timothy Noakes, MD, DSc, and Professor of Exercise and Sports Science, from the "Lore of Running": "But what this last study shows is the relative dearth of quality studies of the effects of EPO use on athletic performance. The analogy with anabolic steroids is striking. The two most abused drugs in international sporting competition have evoked the least scientific interest among the research community."
This ten year old post is Rekrunner's first contribution to the EPO debate here.
This thread is a classic. Ten years old and has all the big names from Canova to Trollism going back and forth. Even Ghost1 (simply called Ghost back then) defending an Ethiopian born Spaniard over doping and Trollism calling him out on it. To be fair, the guy (Bezabeh) was eventually cleared due to lack of evidence.
I have to apologize to Rekrunner - I don't think he is a paid shill, he does genuinely believe the things he writes.
I had forgotten about that ventolin^ guy.
Entertaining fellow.
And ghost defending a doper? Some things never change.
Coevett wrote:
This ten year old post is Rekrunner's first contribution to the EPO debate here.
This thread is a classic. Ten years old and has all the big names from Canova to Trollism going back and forth. Even Ghost1 (simply called Ghost back then) defending an Ethiopian born Spaniard over doping and Trollism calling him out on it. To be fair, the guy (Bezabeh) was eventually cleared due to lack of evidence.
I have to apologize to Rekrunner - I don't think he is a paid shill, he does genuinely believe the things he writes.
Maybe one of the first posts, as “rekrunner”.
“Paid shill” is one of these childish games that posters play and some of the lesser intelligent posters fall for, and reach for when they cannot hold their own in a real discussion. It’s like asking whether “El Keniano” is really Kenyan — a childish game that doesn’t matter, but achieves its intended effect of distraction.
Ten years ago, history was already written, and nothing that has happened in the last 10 years that could alter the historical results of the 20 years that preceded it. If anyone wanted to believe anecdotes of 3-4 second gains from EPO not achievable legally, they would have had to ignore the glaring anomaly that such phenomenal returns from a globally available and globally abused, for decades, were limited to small regions of inhabitants born in East and North Africa, and worked best on a group of people with scarce resources (money, reliable electricity, reliable refrigeration) born and raised in an environment known to trigger the same physiological effects without resorting to artificial substances.