Ruth Chepngetich just ruined the sport of marathon

end of the sport · 2024-10-13T10:42:52-04:00

I don't know what she's on but combined with faster shoes this time is just too much to take.

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1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:10pm EDT

re: Paul T

Paul T wrote:
It take a guess and say that the accused dopers are not “your” competitors. and let’s say that you happen to be a clean athlete who competes “against” them, someone is probably chattering that you are a doper. Point is, it’s a waste of time to give it enough thought where one is giving time to think and write about it.

"We" are talking about athletes at the top of the sport, not hobby joggers. I guess it was a "waste of time" when a confidential athlete survey suggested up to one in two (or even more) championship athletes were doping. It was probably also a "waste of time" when there was "thinking and writing" about doping in baseball and cycling.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:11pm EDT

re: Primo Numero Uno

Primo Numero Uno wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
Of course the new WR can seem unbilievable, but one of the reasons is that the most part of runners (and coaches...) don't have a real idea about which percentage of speed of the PB of 10000m is possible to maintain in a full marathon when the athlete is specifically prepared for the full distance (I mean REALLY prepared, not to THINK that is prepared.....).
I want to give PB of European athletes (after this we can speak of African, but I prefer to stay in the field of western runners) for 10000m, HM and Marathon, with the percentage of speed athletes are able to run comparing with the speed for the marathon.
Sondre Moen - 27'55" (road) (2'47"5/km) - 59'48" (2'50"/km) - 2:05:48 (2:58.8/km)
Percentage HM / 10000m : 98.5% - Mar / 10000m : 93.7% - Mar / HM : 95.1%
Amanal Petros - 27'32" (2'45"2) - 60:09 (2'54"8) - 2:04:58 (2'57"6)
HM / 10000m : 94.5% - Mar / 10000m : 93% - Mar / HM : 98.4%
Tadesse Abraham - 28'28" (road) (2'50"8 / km) - 59'53" (2'50"3) - 2:05:01 (2'57"7)
HM / 10000m : 99.8% - Mar / 10000m : 96.1% - Mar / HM : 95.8%
Migidio Bourifa - 29'24" (2'56"4) - 62'43" (2'58"3) - 2:09:07 (3'03"5)
HM / 10000m : 98.9 % - Mar / 10000m : 96.1% - Mar / HM : 97.1%
Kenenisa Bekele - 26'17" (2'37"7) - 2:01:41 (2'53")
Mar / 10000m : 91.2%
Eliud Kipchoge - 26'49" (2'40"9) - 58'20" (estimated - 2'45"8) - 2:01:09 (2'52"2)
HM / 10000m : 97% - Mar / 10000m : 93.4% - Mar / HM : 96.3 %
We can see that the average of speed specialized marathon runners can develop (compared with their PB in 10000m) can be about 93%, while the percentage of speed used for running HM (from 10000m) is around 97%, and HM-Marathon is 96%.
This means that athletes preparing marathon, comparing their PB in 10000m and the possible PB in marathon, can run with proper training in the following times :
28'00" (94% = 2'58"1) in 2:05 - 2:06
28'20" (94% = 3'00"2) in 2:06:30 - 2:07
28'40" (94% = 3'02"3) in 2:08 - 2:08:30
29'00" (94% = 3'04"5) in 2:09 - 2:09:30
29'20" (94% = 3'06"6) in 2:10:30 - 2:11
29'40" (94% = 3'08"7) in 2:12:30 - 2:13:0
30'00" (94% = 3'10"8) in 2:14 - 2:15
This means that in many Countries (particularly in US and UK) at the moment there is not a correct idea of the performances athletes can achieve, according their PB in 10 km, if start to do proper training, without thinking that workouts like 3 times 3 miles at Marathon Pace with 1 mile recovery at 80% of MP are something specific : if there is specific speed, the volume of training and the length of the workout is not enough ; if on the contrary length and volume are enough, the speed is too slow and it's not possible to have metabolic adaptation to the distance at given pace.
A) every athlete on that list is almost certainly doping.
B)Yes the quality of workouts improves when doping because you can do a very hard effort and recover much faster. That is the main benefit.
C)Out of competition testing in Kenya and Ethiopia is a joke which is when doping occurs.
D) why does letsrun keep lionizing this guy. The sport is ripe with doping but surely the lady who just took 2 minutes off the WR is clean.

Yeah, we should all listen to a nobody on letsrun than a renowned world-class coach.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:11pm EDT

re: whawha

whawha wrote:
noname33 wrote:
You consider that SML is also ruining sport?
Because she’s breaking weak hurdle records? If she runs a 46 400m and a 20 second 200 then ya might have something lol

By definition here, all records that get broken are "weak".

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:12pm EDT

re: Curious_Cat

Curious_Cat wrote:
Primo Numero Uno wrote:
A) every athlete on that list is almost certainly doping.
B)Yes the quality of workouts improves when doping because you can do a very hard effort and recover much faster. That is the main benefit.
C)Out of competition testing in Kenya and Ethiopia is a joke which is when doping occurs.
D) why does letsrun keep lionizing this guy. The sport is ripe with doping but surely the lady who just took 2 minutes off the WR is clean.
Yeah, we should all listen to a nobody on letsrun than a renowned world-class coach.

Also a renowned Kenyan doping apologist.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:15pm EDT

re: The Critical Skeptic

If you think worrying and writing about it is going to make a change, keep worrying and writing. If not, your brain is going to be filled with negativity.

I’m not suggesting and of these world leading marks are definitely clean. But why get spun out over something you can’t control?

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:18pm EDT

re: Armstronglivs

Again, don’t follow sport if your suspicions agitate your brain. Doping/cheating is not new and it will never go away.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:21pm EDT

re: Paul T

Paul T wrote:
Again, don’t follow sport if your suspicions agitate your brain. Doping/cheating is not new and it will never go away.

tbh, if doping is so rampant, that's basically a level-playing field at least at the elite level. If we're talking about health, it's their bodies, their choice. Why can't we just enjoy the show? Athletes are basically just entertainers, not some kinds of mystic higher beings

This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:21pm EDT

re: Renato Canova

Imagine how much faster she could go if she doped. Probably take it down to 2:06-2:07, cross the finish line all smiles, stop to pickup a flag, and start running around again.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:30pm EDT

re: LDoc

LDoc wrote:
Ghost1 wrote:
Why is it that a man who runs 2:09 who has best times of 14 minutes and 29 minutes (5k/10k), does not come under suspicion but a woman does - this is not logical.
People are jumping to irrational conclusions.
If you add to this that women are more efficient fat burners than men, just look at Channel swimmers for women who are equal to most of the men, and one can accept this new time.
Not saying that she didn't cheat but the burden of proof rests on the accusers not the accused.
Finally, someone sensible and balanced. I sometimes wonder how a country can possibly elect a narcissistic, hateful megalomaniac, and then I read the comments on here. I realise I should just not read them. Ciao.

Who are these 14min and 29min runners going sub 2:10. List them please and list their track progression.

Ruth is way ahead of the WRs for both these distances as well as the HM, and went flat out at HM PB pace. That has never eve been done, and is physically impossible

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:31pm EDT

re: Curious_Cat

Curious_Cat wrote:
Primo Numero Uno wrote:
A) every athlete on that list is almost certainly doping.
B)Yes the quality of workouts improves when doping because you can do a very hard effort and recover much faster. That is the main benefit.
C)Out of competition testing in Kenya and Ethiopia is a joke which is when doping occurs.
D) why does letsrun keep lionizing this guy. The sport is ripe with doping but surely the lady who just took 2 minutes off the WR is clean.
Yeah, we should all listen to a nobody on letsrun than a renowned world-class coach.

What else would coach say?

"Coaches are doping their athletes!"??

Instead we should ask a world-renowned doper like Lance. At least he was eventually man-enough to own what he did (to win). What do you think he'd say about unworldly athletic performances like this?

1 year ago 10/14/2024 8:35pm EDT

re: I am Sam

I am Sam wrote:
LDoc wrote:
Finally, someone sensible and balanced. I sometimes wonder how a country can possibly elect a narcissistic, hateful megalomaniac, and then I read the comments on here. I realise I should just not read them. Ciao.
Who are these 14min and 29min runners going sub 2:10. List them please and list their track progression.
Ruth is way ahead of the WRs for both these distances as well as the HM, and went flat out at HM PB pace. That has never eve been done, and is physically impossible

Yuki Kawauchi ran 2:08 in old racing flats (Sortiemagic) with a 13:58/29:02. He also did a bunch of 800s in his off season and never broke 2.

He later improved his PR to 2:07 with a 28:53 in supershoes.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 9:19pm EDT

re: catapulted fungus

catapulted fungus wrote:
RunningBecky wrote:
True. I will not say that she was using Peds. I do not know. Just that it is suspicious.
So far we have 12 pages of people saying this. Compare that to when the white dude ran 7:17 and there was 30 pages of people calling it a glorious occurance.

Maybe so but I am not responsible for what other people are saying about norweigan middle distance runners.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 9:56pm EDT

re: Curious_Cat

Curious_Cat wrote:
Primo Numero Uno wrote:
A) every athlete on that list is almost certainly doping.
B)Yes the quality of workouts improves when doping because you can do a very hard effort and recover much faster. That is the main benefit.
C)Out of competition testing in Kenya and Ethiopia is a joke which is when doping occurs.
D) why does letsrun keep lionizing this guy. The sport is ripe with doping but surely the lady who just took 2 minutes off the WR is clean.
Yeah, we should all listen to a nobody on letsrun than a renowned world-class coach.

When the latter is talking about doping in distance running he's actually LESS credible than the average poster, because he's long established, high level, obfuscator on the subject.

This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 10:02pm EDT

re: astro

astro wrote:
Every top marathoner is doping. That is shown by the avalanche of doping busts in the sport. But the calculation is that it won't be caught, and if it ever is, they already have the prize money.

Mantz and Young, too?

1 year ago 10/14/2024 10:06pm EDT

re: Curious_Cat

Curious_Cat wrote:
Paul T wrote:
Again, don’t follow sport if your suspicions agitate your brain. Doping/cheating is not new and it will never go away.
tbh, if doping is so rampant, that's basically a level-playing field at least at the elite level. If we're talking about health, it's their bodies, their choice. Why can't we just enjoy the show? Athletes are basically just entertainers, not some kinds of mystic higher beings

When "the show" in question is a test of pure, individual, physiological capacity you can't really enjoy it when the players are pharmacologically manipulating these exact variables, breaking the very rules that give the thing meaning in the first place. Contrast this with a team sport, wherein so many other variables determine success. Doping is one of the main reasons our sport is not more popular, and a performance like the one we're discussing is only going to increase the skepticism and encourage further disengagement.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 10:18pm EDT

re: Redonculous Maximus

Redonculous Maximus wrote:
I'm convinced that Chepngetich's 2:09 = Paula's 2:15 adjusted for SuperShoes. Paula's 2:!5 was such an outlier for so long that others struggled to get within 2 minutes of it. So if you believe one is/was on PEDs, then naturally it stands to reason that the other is/was. Conversely if you believe one is/was clean, then it stands to reason that the other is/was as well. Question is whether Ruth's 2:09 is a one-off outlier or if (a) she'll be able to repeat it, and (b) whether we'll have a flood of similar performances from other athletes.
My take: they're both probably pharmaceutically enhanced performances.

paula had grey area salazar type soft blood doping. = gunpowder

epo and test and HGH are absolute = TNT. x 5 in women.

realize these chicks can go 208 at least on the super sauce. now. and go for a brisk jog after.

that is the same as the best american men with 27x 10k.

kapish?

1 year ago 10/14/2024 10:38pm EDT

re: nobrainer

further to 208.

the first 3 or 4 miles were at 448 mile pace. mile 25 was 445.

was not exhausted at the end.

coupled with the completely unnatural progression,

that is EPO profile.

that said, with the worlds women totally cheated, the cheaters dont have much a clue, about their sins.

or is this the age of outrageous fakery?

for sure though, elderly people want the super sauce.

that is the silver lining.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 10:44pm EDT

re: Paul T

Paul T wrote:Furthermore, if any of us has every taken crib notes into a test, or such, we don’t have a podium to speak from.

That's definitely not true. People can definitely point out wrongdoing as wrong even if they themselves have done bad things in the past. If the person hasn't changed his outlook it would be hypocritical, I will say that, but I strongly disagree with your point. To take it to an extreme, a repentant murderer surely can speak well about how murder is evil.

1 year ago 10/14/2024 10:47pm EDT

re: nobrainer

regarding dopeing.

i know that walker and scott, could run 346 minimum mile, and most probably 344 345 with todays tracks and shoes.

the athletes of that era had more talent.

end of diatribe.

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