We have merged two threads on this topic into 1 and kept the title of the longer thread. The other thread was called, "Adeline Johnson, high school senior, misses state due to biological male taking the last spot in California."
It's a throw away line - "I don’t care. Sports aren’t fair". If that's the case, she can just as easily run with the boys and it shouldn't bother you one bit.
That’s silly. Girls run with girls. She’s a girl, and she wants to run with other girls, so she should.
Some of these girls have long hair, breasts, makeup. You know, stuff that presents as traditionally feminine. It doesn’t make sense to have them run with dudes.
I don’t care about what bothers me one bit. I care about the athlete. If you don’t care about it either, then let’s agree to let the athlete decide.
Continuing, I’m 99% sure that the 7th athlete from the Southern section was allowed into the state meet because of a protest or appeal after one of the 3 falls during the race, NOT because the CIF granted an extra spot because of Barrett
So nobody was left out .
…and the only thing that happened is that Barrett led from 400m to 1200m into the wind which allowed Rylee Blade and Callanan to run PBs
It is possible to be in support of the LGBTQ community but be totally against trans girls / women competing in the girls / womens divisions.
That is where I am.
Nope not possible. Either you believe women can become men just by declaration and such also pregnant. Then those legitimate women are allowed to Run in womens competition. Or you dont believe that and such no "transwomen" in womens competition
I am against the unfair advantages in competition. The hormone standards in place do not negate the physical advantages of being born a male to level the playing field in female athletics.
You and others might want to use this to attack the LGBTQ community but my view is that it is none of my business unless it directly impacts others. In this case it does. As a coach I can not allow the athletes that I work with to be destroyed in competition by those with an unfair advantage.
The fact that they are Trans does not bother me at all. It’s not my place (not yours either) to judge them.
What is it that you do in your life that places you in the position to judge others?
Nope not possible. Either you believe women can become men just by declaration and such also pregnant. Then those legitimate women are allowed to Run in womens competition. Or you dont believe that and such no "transwomen" in womens competition
I am against the unfair advantages in competition. The hormone standards in place do not negate the physical advantages of being born a male to level the playing field in female athletics.
You and others might want to use this to attack the LGBTQ community but my view is that it is none of my business unless it directly impacts others. In this case it does. As a coach I can not allow the athletes that I work with to be destroyed in competition by those with an unfair advantage.
The fact that they are Trans does not bother me at all. It’s not my place (not yours either) to judge them.
What is it that you do in your life that places you in the position to judge others?
This thread is response to the transgender athletes in high school where there are no hormone standards in place and which is why there will be no scholarships lost.
There are only seven people who qualified in two field events. The coach of three of these athletes was one of the ones complaining so obviously they are out. Of the final four, three of them qualified in the shot and discus. Odds are good that these are the events in which the situation occurred.
If so, this is even worse than the situation in California because of the smaller and lighter implements that are used. There is a HUGE difference between throwing a 12-lb shot and an 4kg (8.8-lb) shot and throwing a 1.6kg (3.5-lb) discus and a 1kg (2.2-lb) discus.
Are you a moron? Some of the runners could have set big PRs with the great competition at the state meet that would put them on the radar, but they weren’t allowed to compete due to males taking their spots.
Nope not possible. Either you believe women can become men just by declaration and such also pregnant. Then those legitimate women are allowed to Run in womens competition. Or you dont believe that and such no "transwomen" in womens competition
I am against the unfair advantages in competition. The hormone standards in place do not negate the physical advantages of being born a male to level the playing field in female athletics.
You and others might want to use this to attack the LGBTQ community but my view is that it is none of my business unless it directly impacts others. In this case it does. As a coach I can not allow the athletes that I work with to be destroyed in competition by those with an unfair advantage.
The fact that they are Trans does not bother me at all. It’s not my place (not yours either) to judge them.
What is it that you do in your life that places you in the position to judge others?
What? By not letting them compete as women you already aknowledge that they are not women. You are the trans hater here. If you would accept them you would also be in favor of them competing. Thats all I am saying really. There ist no grey area. By being against them competing in the womens competition do deny that trans is valid
We were all having a respectful conversation about fairness in women's sports until you came along and made everyone else look bad, by calling tans people freaks. Please stop. You are hurting us. We do not think trans people are freaks. People like you make us look like bigots.
According to Wikipedia and other websites a freak is "a person who is physically deformed or transformed due to an extraordinary medical condition or body modification."
Therefore what you posted is misleading, not true, and is disrespectful to real women.
Are you a moron? Some of the runners could have set big PRs with the great competition at the state meet that would put them on the radar, but they weren’t allowed to compete due to males taking their spots.
Aren’t the runners in the next spot being allowed to advance? Anyway, the the state meet is not usually a good place for the slowest qualifiers to PR as they often go out too fast.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
I am against the unfair advantages in competition. The hormone standards in place do not negate the physical advantages of being born a male to level the playing field in female athletics.
You and others might want to use this to attack the LGBTQ community but my view is that it is none of my business unless it directly impacts others. In this case it does. As a coach I can not allow the athletes that I work with to be destroyed in competition by those with an unfair advantage.
The fact that they are Trans does not bother me at all. It’s not my place (not yours either) to judge them.
What is it that you do in your life that places you in the position to judge others?
What? By not letting them compete as women you already aknowledge that they are not women. You are the trans hater here. If you would accept them you would also be in favor of them competing. Thats all I am saying really. There ist no grey area. By being against them competing in the womens competition do deny that trans is valid
What a load of crap.
Otter (along with a few others) is one of the only sensible posters on here. And he/she is open to nuance - not trapped in the world of black and white.
"By being against them competing in the women's competition you do deny that trans is valid" - FALSE!
You are trapped in the same world of black and white as those whom you oppose. Try to get away from black and white thinking. It can be difficult but it is possible.
We aren’t talking about some local 5k or a dual meet. We are talking about a race where some of the top female 1600 runners in the country are competing in. The young women who make the finals are all top level D1 prospects and are most likely training A LOT. The trans females, if they were running as boys, their times of 4:49 and 4:55 are average for boys. Now, they are elite national runners since they are running as females. Look at the running form of the one who placed 3rd in the SS. It is not very good and she is running a 4:49 based on her strength advantage, not because of good running form.
Forcing young women to compete against biological males is unhealthy and unsafe especially at this top level that we are talking about. Females need to carry a much higher % age of body fat to maintain their health than a man. This is a massive advantage in running and has the potential to force top level young women to bring their already low body fat lower and into unhealthy territory to compete.
I know this thread is long and may not get too many readers at this point, but I have a real question: does anyone know if any of the trans people we are talking about here transitioned before puberty? If so, wouldn't they be following all the current rules of the sport?
I would assume the answer is no, so that brings up the next question: has anyone heard of someone transitioning before puberty and making it to the elite level of their sport? What kind of research has been done that assesses whether a trans that takes the hormone blockers pre-puberty does or does not have a biological advantage over cis-gendered women?
Another more general question is when someone takes the hormone blockers, does their level of T drop to absolute zero, or does it bottom out at some minimal level? Are they given any other hormones as a cushion so their bodies do not go into "non-hormone" shock (for lack of a more scientific term)?
I am unaware of any early transitioner that ended up at the top of their sport but I believe in response to your question about t levels the medication is intended to reduce serum level to the parameters of natural female range
I know this thread is long and may not get too many readers at this point, but I have a real question: does anyone know if any of the trans people we are talking about here transitioned before puberty? If so, wouldn't they be following all the current rules of the sport?
I would assume the answer is no, so that brings up the next question: has anyone heard of someone transitioning before puberty and making it to the elite level of their sport? What kind of research has been done that assesses whether a trans that takes the hormone blockers pre-puberty does or does not have a biological advantage over cis-gendered women?
Another more general question is when someone takes the hormone blockers, does their level of T drop to absolute zero, or does it bottom out at some minimal level? Are they given any other hormones as a cushion so their bodies do not go into "non-hormone" shock (for lack of a more scientific term)?
CIF rules do not require ANY hormones or transitioning. You simply compete in the category you identify as. No other requirements
I am unaware of any early transitioner that ended up at the top of their sport but I believe in response to your question about t levels the medication is intended to reduce serum level to the parameters of natural female range
No hormones required. CIF rules allow you to compete in the category you identify with
I am unaware of any early transitioner that ended up at the top of their sport but I believe in response to your question about t levels the medication is intended to reduce serum level to the parameters of natural female range
No hormones required. CIF rules allow you to compete in the category you identify with
Do you think those two are the only trans athletes competing in California? Chances are there are others, and maybe even some in track & field. We don't know about any of them because:
1. They are not anywhere close to the top in their sports.
2. They started transitioning early, and probably look feminine from outside.
3. Most people outside of their schools (and many in their schools) don't know they are trans.
I am against the unfair advantages in competition. The hormone standards in place do not negate the physical advantages of being born a male to level the playing field in female athletics.
You and others might want to use this to attack the LGBTQ community but my view is that it is none of my business unless it directly impacts others. In this case it does. As a coach I can not allow the athletes that I work with to be destroyed in competition by those with an unfair advantage.
The fact that they are Trans does not bother me at all. It’s not my place (not yours either) to judge them.
What is it that you do in your life that places you in the position to judge others?
What? By not letting them compete as women you already aknowledge that they are not women. You are the trans hater here. If you would accept them you would also be in favor of them competing. Thats all I am saying really. There ist no grey area. By being against them competing in the womens competition do deny that trans is valid
You have a simple mind. He is not a "trans hater". Allowing people to live the life they choose has no necessary connection to their participation in sports. There are categories for age and weight in sports. And also sex. None of these are related to the lives these athletes have outside of sports. Their personal and professional lives are irrelevant when it comes to determining criteria for competition. Trans people can live as they choose but their participation in female sport is another issue because of the male advantages they have. There is nothing contradictory in that.
