david45 wrote:
speed trap wrote:
The average is much faster in XC.
And XC shouldn't be exclusive to the talented
It isn't. A line must be drawn though.
david45 wrote:
speed trap wrote:
The average is much faster in XC.
And XC shouldn't be exclusive to the talented
It isn't. A line must be drawn though.
david45 wrote:
I tried to join XC last year, but I couldn't run a mile in under 6 minutes during time trials, so the coach cut me.
I didn't know that there was a school at Everest Base Camp which has an XC team. Don't feel bad if you can't keep up with the sherpas, man. It's a lot harder to run sub 6 miles at that altitude than it is to run that fast at sea level.
dangstraight wrote:
We have a no cut policy. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a self-cut sport. If you come every day and work hard we got a spot for you. You may need to stay on campus more but you’ll get a chance to improve and get better. If you don’t show up... well that’s another matter.
And what if someone stops showing up because they are injured?
toast wrote:
david45 wrote:
Won't new runners get injured if they try to do that?
Were you truly a brand new runner at the tryout? Does your school have a middle school XC/TF team? I don't think it's too much to ask an athlete to be able to handle that kind of mileage if it's a good team. So no, most runners will not get hurt on 30mpw easy base.
Another coach said it above - most coaches won't even let a runner do workouts if they find out they don't have enough summer base. If you are absolutely brand new to the sport is it unreasonable for the coach to tell you to work on your own and come back again next year when you enough experience to compete safely?
I was absolutely new.
3 miles up wrote:
david45 wrote:
I tried to join XC last year, but I couldn't run a mile in under 6 minutes during time trials, so the coach cut me.
I didn't know that there was a school at Everest Base Camp which has an XC team. Don't feel bad if you can't keep up with the sherpas, man. It's a lot harder to run sub 6 miles at that altitude than it is to run that fast at sea level.
Stop trolling
david45 wrote:
toast wrote:
Were you truly a brand new runner at the tryout? Does your school have a middle school XC/TF team? I don't think it's too much to ask an athlete to be able to handle that kind of mileage if it's a good team. So no, most runners will not get hurt on 30mpw easy base.
Another coach said it above - most coaches won't even let a runner do workouts if they find out they don't have enough summer base. If you are absolutely brand new to the sport is it unreasonable for the coach to tell you to work on your own and come back again next year when you enough experience to compete safely?
I was absolutely new.
I did a running over the summer, but it wasn't at 30 MPW
david45 wrote:
And what if someone stops showing up because they are injured?
They get cut from the team. Even if you're injured you still show up to support your teammates. This is a basic expectation for every sports team. Can I ask an honest question? Have you ever participated in organized sports before?
toast wrote:
david45 wrote:
And what if someone stops showing up because they are injured?
They get cut from the team. Even if you're injured you still show up to support your teammates. This is a basic expectation for every sports team. Can I ask an honest question? Have you ever participated in organized sports before?
As for your question, no.
otter wrote:
coach of fasty wrote:
Of course it impacts my fast athletes. Every additional athlete is an additional physical I have to verify and rules sheet and uniform tracking. But the practices are what really hurt the good runners because I can't give as much attention to them if I have 50 distance guys as opposed to 10. With a small number, we can easily drive to special places to do workouts and I can safely keep track of kids because they are similar in ability. I can work with them on race trategy and running form and diet and sleep and school. When doing a track workout, I can keep them on pace instead of having to monitor 3 or 4 groups who are running different paces.
I have a large team and the slower groups do not have any negative impact on my faster runners.
My varsity squad will often do workouts on different days. Sometimes we go to those special places outside of practice. And then what happens is athletes that want to go to those “special” workout locations work harder. And, then the athletes that go to those special workouts step it up because they don’t want to lose their spot.
...and then you have a fast team.
After a few years with a big team I can keep track of multiple groups when I have to in a workout. It comes with practice. I had done it on one watch by staggering each girl by ten seconds and then having group leaders keep track of the rest interval while I keep track of the top group. It can be done.
Early season the kids that did not run over the summer which constitutes much of the slow athletes we have do not even do workouts. I have found for this group there is a 50% injury rate of they go from nothing to running 6 days per week with races and workouts. So what do you do? Races, recovery runs, and regular runs with a lot of rest. We have won a lot of JV championships with that strategy. But, they are not getting in the way of your top group and some of them will train hard next year and be on your varsity.
So be careful of who you reject. They might be your future.
As an athlete in high school I went from being a 21+ minute sophomore to be being undefeated regionally my senior year. I probably would have been cut from other teams.
Do you require summer running? And how fast do the guys who didn't practice over the summer run by the end of the season?
You can be pretty fast if you have talent without doing any summer work but most people have to put in a lot of work. I went 19:45 last year on very inconsistent summer running (although I had run the year before in middle school) but I could have done better if I had run more. Legit just run in the summer. As many people say. "The more time you spend on LR the less time you are spending training." Just run man, if you are a healthy guy than you will probably be fine, and if XC or TF doesn't work for you just try out for another sport. Its that simple.
david45 wrote:
Then how is anyone supposed to run XC if the average person can't run anywhere near a 6 minute mile?
You are from the US right?
There is a way around everything. Tell the principal you really want to compete. Tell the principal it's unfair and that you really, really want to do a few races. Doesn't mean it would work but it helps your chances.
If you were in Alberta, Canada, specifically Edmonton, you would not be cut from the team.
You would make the city championships as long as you did a few races. All you have to do to qualify is run 3 races. That's how it was when I was in high school, probably still the same.
To make provincials you have to come top 15 in the city, when I was in HS, now it's top 18.
You could also organize your own races.
You could find meets outside of school if you live in an area with a lot of running culture.
Greg wrote:
If you were in Alberta, Canada, specifically Edmonton, you would not be cut from the team.
referring to my old high school. I can't speak for other schools.
coach of fasty wrote:
I keep 50 distance runners. I was answering the kid by explaining how additional numbers do impact other kids. I am not complaining. It is my choice to maintain a distance roster of 50. We typically have 75 try out and we keep 50. We are the dominant team in the state utilizing this process.
You are not the dominant team because of this process. More than likely you are in a wealthy, active and mostly white community at a sports school.
dangstraight wrote:
coach of fasty wrote:
I keep 50 distance runners. I was answering the kid by explaining how additional numbers do impact other kids. I am not complaining. It is my choice to maintain a distance roster of 50. We typically have 75 try out and we keep 50. We are the dominant team in the state utilizing this process.
You are not the dominant team because of this process. More than likely you are in a wealthy, active and mostly white community at a sports school.
What does wealthy and white have to do with anything?
Creating a winning culture, one where kids want to join the team, even knowing that many will get cut, is how you develop a good team. It is a privilege to be on the team. Kids at school know it means something just to make the squad. Kids wear their team gear proudly around the school. All of the complaints in this thread do not change the fact that there is not one team making cuts who is not successful.
To run sub 6, one needs a certain level of competence and intelligence. Since you are a new runner and a kid, it would be unreasonable to expect you to get it on your own (although many other kids can do it). This is where you speak to your coach and ask him how and what you should be doing to run sub 6. Maybe he will even take notice to your initiative to ask questions for the sake of improving and let you practice with the team.
Either way, I think you are trolling.
Short answer: yes they can. As much as you hate the answer, its setting up standards. I already noticed based on your replies you are essentially seeking sympathy and people to agree with you. The job of the coach is not to accommodate you or your hurt feelings on the matter.
My advise: used the rejection as motivation to train harder and make the cut next time around.
Personally, I wouldn't do it to a new kid. Even if you can't meet a standard it's very feasible that you can push past it after a few months of direct training just from experience. I get a lot of guys doing XC for the first time freshmen year and even though I give summer guidance I don't expect it to be super effective since the athletes and I don't really know each other yet and they have, I assume, no knowledge whatsoever about XC running.
If a returner showed up and gave me that when he was significantly better last year I would get pissed and tell him to try again Indoor season, since it's clear he didn't do anything over the summer.
When it comes to a hard-cut due to speed, I would only do it if the kid was so slow it ground everything to a halt. If we're doing hill repeats at a park 1.5 miles away I don't want to have 25 guys waiting because the last guy takes 20 minutes to get there and needs me to supervise him.
It's unfair for a high school coach to not set some sort of time standard. It helps substantially with the overall depth of the team.
As for how fast the standards need to be depend on the team.
willpower for hours wrote:
To run sub 6, one needs a certain level of competence and intelligence.
If it was sub 5:20, I'd agree, but almost any young man can get sub 6 just on 15-20 minutes of continuous running 5-6 days a week. It's when you get to the 5:15-5:20 range and below that you need things like long runs, tempos, intervals, race paced workouts, tapering, and so on.