Webb's place 9th vs Snell's

Roland Barthes wrote:

better..chance of winning by going with the pack and hoping that somebody gets boxed, somebody else goes too soon, etc.

I don't know about that. I'd rather Webb do what he did while believing in himself as the strongest competitor. For him to just wait on others to make a mistake or get into difficulty is pretty lax.

He went for it but didn't get it. I don't think the solution is to not go for it. Instead it's to get better like he's intending to do, and to use the experience.

BTW, if Prefontaine was present day and did the exact same thing, it'd add to his legend.

how rt u r wrote:

Which american distance runners surpassed your expectations at the WC?

For me there were only 5.

Victoria Jackson

Brian Sell

Clint Verran

Turena Lane

Emily Levan

Victoria Jackson was the only one on the oval.

Elizabeth Jackson, I think. Carrie Messner ran a PR in the steeple heats to make the final, but not so well in the final. She exceeded expectations to make the final even if she didn't do as well in the final.

Katie McGregor and Jen Rhines ran PRs in the 10000m. That seemed to be a pretty good return for the outing.

Ian Dobson ran about where I expected him to be.

For all the talk about Webb, 9th was not an unfair reflection on his abilities.

Deena did the same thing in Athens as Brian did in Helsinki. She started in the back and picked people off throughout the marathon. Unlike Brian though, she finished in the medals. BUT, she employed the same strategy. Were you ripping on her last year for not going for it with Radcliffe early on because if she did she could have won the gold?

ttc wrote:

Roland Barthes wrote:

better..chance of winning by going with the pack and hoping that somebody gets boxed, somebody else goes too soon, etc.

I don't know about that. I'd rather Webb do what he did while believing in himself as the strongest competitor. For him to just wait on others to make a mistake or get into difficulty is pretty lax.

He went for it but didn't get it. I don't think the solution is to not go for it. Instead it's to get better like he's intending to do, and to use the experience.

BTW, if Prefontaine was present day and did the exact same thing, it'd add to his legend.

What my post tried to say is that the notion of "going for it" is not the way I saw his race. I think he had zero, nada, zip, chance of running away from the field, so I don't think it was "going for it" to make that move. I think it was merely foolish. His strategy was to take the field by the neck and throttle them into submission. Nothing in his background suggests he is ready to do this. And he wasn't.

And, yes, I agree, because Webb is not the best runner in the field, he almost certainly would have also "failed" to win by waiting for others to move first. Maybe you see that as "lax." But I see a patient strategy as "going for it" more than I do making the big doomed move. A more patient strategy wouldn't have necessarily been conceding defeat. I think he would have had a better chance of finding a finishing gear he didn't know was there than he wuold have had running away from everyone that far out.

Prefontaine in 72 was able to drop everybody but one, and two more came back on him. Webb dropped nobody. Big difference.

I was waiting for someone to pick up on this. No I am not dissing Deena, though she employed the same strategy, the big difference is that she went out in a pace that she thought would probably put her in medal contention by the end of the race. It was well thought out and executed and worked wonderfully. Sell was to run a certain pace and pick off as many as people as he could, I am sure there was no thought that 2:13 would be a pace that would put him in medal contention at the end.

But maybe to Sell and his coaches it was. If he went out at 5:00, or just under, pace wouldn't that have given him a time 2:10-2:11? That would have put him in medal contention. I'm almost certain Brian was hoping to run faster than 2:13, it just didn't happen that day.

Roland Barthes wrote:

Prefontaine in 72 was able to drop everybody but one, and two more came back on him. Webb dropped nobody. Big difference.

Don't forget Pre was in the 5K, where runners always get dropped. In the Olympics, El G had the pack on him the entire way during the 1500m, while he dropped almost everyone in his weaker 5000m event. It's pretty difficult to drop the best in a 3.75 lap race, especially a slow, tactical one.

I still say though that under the exact same circumstances, Pre would've added to his legend. He probably would've come up with one of his quotes during post-race and drawn raves as a tough SOB who wanted to win and backed down from no one.

millions can run quicker than webbs time...who here can run quicker than sells???

a lot of people can run faster than Ramzi's time too, so now you're saying Sell is better than Ramzi?