Parents and girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

Mitchell, one of the plaintiffs also won the 100 last year outdoors. There were other instances as well, I just don't feel like digging through old results right now.

I'm two years removed from coaching in CT but I know that this petition/lawsuit/whatever you want to call it has been circulating around for some time. I was asked multiple times from other coaches if my athletes and I would support it/join it. This is 100% a coach/parent driven thing. Most of the young women that I came across in the past few years competing against Miller and Yearwood were accepting and understanding of the situation. Those voices are overshadowed by adults.

We are suppossed to teach our young, not have them teach us. The young are bombarded with this trash in their schools. They are brainwashed to accept this lifestyle. If a 16 year old girl is now as mature as an adult, let's just allow 50 year old men to date 16 year okd girls.

So, the issue that these girls (and to be clear, it's an organization called ADF driving the train here) are bringing up is that the CT non-discrimination law states that transgender girls can compete as girls without having to do anything medically. It's not clear to me if either of the trans girls here are on hormone blockers or female hormones or what, but I believe the plaintiffs are basically saying it isn't fair for them to have to compete with trans women who have a massive advantage (natural testosterone).

USATF, for example, has this policy:

"Following years of consideration and exploration, the USATF Board of Directors on February 27, 2005, adopted the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) policy regarding competition by transgender athletes and transsexual athletes which was updated in November of 2015. (View the IOC's updated policies.) This policy requires that certain medical benchmarks be achieved before an athlete may compete as the opposite gender for medals, prize money and other benefits. The intent of this policy is to establish competitive eligibility and to help ensure fair competition. The policy also contains safeguards to protect the privacy of any athlete(s) making the request for eligibility."

former CT coach wrote:

Mitchell, one of the plaintiffs also won the 100 last year outdoors. There were other instances as well, I just don't feel like digging through old results right now.

I'm two years removed from coaching in CT but I know that this petition/lawsuit/whatever you want to call it has been circulating around for some time. I was asked multiple times from other coaches if my athletes and I would support it/join it. This is 100% a coach/parent driven thing. Most of the young women that I came across in the past few years competing against Miller and Yearwood were accepting and understanding of the situation. Those voices are overshadowed by adults.

I would wager that any high school girls that you actually did discuss the situation with were concerned about being labelled as transphobic and just parroted the party line, especially if the discussion involved an authority figure. Not a single athlete, boy or girl, on my team believes that the Connecticut situation is fair. Fortunately, I coach in a backwards state where biological males may only compete against biological males, regardless of gender identity.

ADF is a pretty nasty, far right religious group. I doubt they give a crap about the girl and are just using her in their crusade against heathens. The lawsuit has no chance of succeeding but they want the publicity from filing it.

The girl can do what she wants, but she's alienating part of the population and some future potential employers will google her name and take a pass. Nothing good comes from being a focal point of a controversial issue. It would have been better for her to get over finishing in 8th place instead of 6th.

Here is the issue. If it can be medically established that transgenders have no physical advantage over biological females then they should be allowed to participate. But despite having medical hormone markers, I am not sure that we can definitely state this. So for now I would say no to participation.

And really I would think transgenders would have so many issues trying to gain societal acceptance, why would they want to antagonize large groups of people by forcing this issue?

Its misdirected energy.

It would be a sad world if no one ever had the courage to accept the consequences and stand up for what's right. In that world, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. There would simply be no women's sports. In fact, they wouldn't even be able to vote.

They’re not “forcing the issue.” They are running a foot race as a girl against other girls. This issue is not complicated. The only misdirected energy is the one that is trying to keep athletes from competing.

That's not my point. Her cause involves

what some people consider to be a persecution of transgender people. The girl said her track coaches have turned against her and she has received some death threats. Some colleges coaches might not want her as a walk on. It's just not worth it. There are two other girls that are part of the suit that did not want to be identified.

No matter how I felt about transgender athletes, there is no way in hell I would want my daughter involved with the ADF.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Conundrum wrote:

Here is the issue. If it can be medically established that transgenders have no physical advantage over biological females then they should be allowed to participate. But despite having medical hormone markers, I am not sure that we can definitely state this. So for now I would say no to participation.

And really I would think transgenders would have so many issues trying to gain societal acceptance, why would they want to antagonize large groups of people by forcing this issue?

Its misdirected energy.

They’re not “forcing the issue.” They are running a foot race as a girl against other girls. This issue is not complicated. The only misdirected energy is the one that is trying to keep athletes from competing.

Someone "forced" or lobbied for these transgenders to compete, and I believe they probably do have a physical advantage (hormonal and average size). Its not a fair competition.

Here is my point, transgenders face much discrimination by society, their competing in an event where they have a physical advantage that most will see as an unfair advantage, will just create more animosity toward transgenders.

In some ways its selfish and unfair to the transgenders who don't want any unfair or special treatment they just want to live their lives accepted as anyone else.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

ADF is a pretty nasty, far right religious group. I doubt they give a crap about the girl and are just using her in their crusade against heathens. The lawsuit has no chance of succeeding but they want the publicity from filing it.

The girl can do what she wants, but she's alienating part of the population and some future potential employers will google her name and take a pass. Nothing good comes from being a focal point of a controversial issue. It would have been better for her to get over finishing in 8th place instead of 6th.

LOL

So feminism is now far right?

And a girl standing up for women's right is "controversial"? What do you think future potential employers will think when they google the name of this CeCe freak?

And you are lying again, the other girls aren't anonymous, although they were bullied by the radical trans lobby:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Conundrum wrote:

Here is the issue. If it can be medically established that transgenders have no physical advantage over biological females then they should be allowed to participate. But despite having medical hormone markers, I am not sure that we can definitely state this. So for now I would say no to participation.

And really I would think transgenders would have so many issues trying to gain societal acceptance, why would they want to antagonize large groups of people by forcing this issue?

Its misdirected energy.

They’re not “forcing the issue.” They are running a foot race as a girl against other girls. This issue is not complicated. The only misdirected energy is the one that is trying to keep athletes from competing.

Let's just go ahead and stipulate that the transgender athletes are girls. Now that we all agree on that, are they also biological females? If not, what should be done about the undisputed physical advantages that they enjoy over those who are, in actual fact, biologically female? There is no way to enforce total fairness in sports, but favoring a tiny percentage of the population over the vast majority is not the way to go.

Viking21 wrote:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

They’re not “forcing the issue.” They are running a foot race as a girl against other girls. This issue is not complicated. The only misdirected energy is the one that is trying to keep athletes from competing.

Let's just go ahead and stipulate that the transgender athletes are girls. Now that we all agree on that, are they also biological females? If not, what should be done about the undisputed physical advantages that they enjoy over those who are, in actual fact, biologically female? There is no way to enforce total fairness in sports, but favoring a tiny percentage of the population over the vast majority is not the way to go.

There are many reasons some athletes become ineligible to compete. This is a fair reason. Let the transgender train with the team but not compete. If they want to race There are a number of road races.

It is self-evidently unfair for biological males to compete in a girls sport. Women are entitled to their own spaces and their own sports without being bullied into accepting a gross injustice. You are not a bigot for opposing being bullied.

bartholomew_maxwell wrote:

Stem Cell Patient wrote:

GOOD

You probably thought this type of segregation was "good" as well:

https://sophiedaveyphoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/segregated.jpg?w=584

That's pretty insulting to the struggles of POC to equate the Jim Crow era with not allowing boys to compete against girls.

I think the lawsuit makes sense. That said, I don't think that the best solution is a simple one.

One solution is to stop separating races on any basis. Throw all the men and women together, and let the fastest runner win. That seems objectively fair, but it has the awful side effect of preventing 50% of the population from competing at high levels of track and field.

The other option is *some* sort of separation based on sex. The reason behind this separation must serve as the guiding principle behind how it is enforced. The reason behind this separation is clearly to provide a level playing field for people who possess the physical attributes typically associated with the possession of xx chromosomes. The reason behind this separation has nothing to do with protecting people based on gender identity, since gender identity (alone) has no known affect on sporting performance.

Hence, I believe the most simple solution (which has been proposed by others) is to eliminate "men's" and "women's" categories in sport, and replace them with the categories of "xx-chromosome" and "non-xx-chromosome." It would be possible to further subdivide the latter category, if one wished to create separate categories for the various intersex conditions that exist.

As for implementation, genetic testing would be relatively easy to do at the elite level, given the relatively small number of competitors. At the high school level, it might make the most sense to do it on the honor system, although random testing of high school athletes competing at championships might give the policy more strength.

Conundrum wrote:

Here is my point, transgenders face much discrimination by society, their competing in an event where they have a physical advantage that most will see as an unfair advantage, will just create more animosity toward transgenders.

Yeah. But you also made a bogus argument about the bathroom issue. (You insisted there had not been any problem until trans activists made it controversial.) And when you were confronted by evidence that disproved your point, you refused to acknowledge your error.

notagenderexpert wrote:

I think the lawsuit makes sense. That said, I don't think that the best solution is a simple one.

One solution is to stop separating races on any basis. Throw all the men and women together, and let the fastest runner win. That seems objectively fair, but it has the awful side effect of preventing 50% of the population from competing at high levels of track and field.

You don't have to eliminate the female division. You only have to replace the male division with open division. Juniors and masters are allowed to compete in the open division, but not vice versa. So you should allow anyone in the open division, including cis women if they choose to. Trans athletes can be treated as "girls" (or someone in transition) competing in the open division, instead of being treated as boys. Moni Davis played in the Little League WS. Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam competed in PGA events. So there is nothing wrong with females competing against males in the open division.

That way, you satisfy the trans athletes right to participate and still preserve the competitive fairness of the protected division.

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

You don't have to eliminate the female division. You only have to replace the male division with open division. Juniors and masters are allowed to compete in the open division, but not vice versa. So you should allow anyone in the open division, including cis women if they choose to. Trans athletes can be treated as "girls" (or someone in transition) competing in the open division, instead of being treated as boys. Moni Davis played in the Little League WS. Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam competed in PGA events. So there is nothing wrong with females competing against males in the open division.

That way, you satisfy the trans athletes right to participate and still preserve the competitive fairness of the protected division.

Ya, the problem is this precedent of having "male" and "female" categories and expecting that only men compete in the "male" category, and that all women compete in this "female" category. If we stopped expecting this, then a transwomen would not feel like she needs to be in the "female" category in order to feel womanly. If we just base heats on seed times, rather than gender, and then offer rewards after for top female in the results, we would not have to worry about this at all.