New spring shoes wrote:
zoomzoomzoom will flip out at these:
https://www.believeintherun.com/2019/10/09/a-breakdown-of-the-nike-kipchoge-prototype/
So just to confirm, ya'll know this isnt actually the alphafly right. its simply a prototype that was being tested, the actual shoe is only a single layer of airbags and only one carbon plate.
Source? - Nike employees involved in designing and testing this
The truthteller wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGtcCeTvtYk
Oh yeah...I’d forgotten about how my foot completely folds in half with every step I take.
Maybe instead of watching inane videos that don’t remotely replicate running you go put on a couple different pairs of carbon plated shoes and then complain about one in particular.
So does Nike really care if these shoes are legal and available to the public before the event?
Does the average runner care if things are legal? If you are only trying to break 3 in the marathon, and not set any type of verified record, you can get away with using any drugs or shoes you want.
If these are the shoes he wears, and he breaks 2 by more than 30 sec, these shoes will likely be available for $499 retail in November.
The 4% and Next % are available to the public. Anyone can buy them, meaning you do not have to be elite to wear them. In fact, I would argue that the majority of people who wear vaporfly are not elite and do not receive these shoes through a Nike sponsorship, meaning those people buy them with their own money.
The majority of the criticism against vaporfly, which is directed at the elites who were them, is misguided because that is not the largest demographic who wears them. Eliud Kipchoge will get more hate for breaking 2:00 for wearing vaporfly, then a non-elite will get for breaking 3:00 wearing vaporfly. That is because no one has gone under 2:00. Right now Kipchoge and possibly Bekele are the only two people on the planet who have a possibility of breaking 2:00 and all you guys want to do is talk crap about the pair of shoes he is wearing?
Nevermind the fact that Kipchoge and the NN running team bust their ass week after week, sacrifice time with their families, do quality sessions as a cohesive team, and are probably the most well-run, organized juggernaut in distance running. This is a revolutionary event and you guys are giving Kipchoge crap about shoes that could help him accomplish an otherwise inconceivable landmark in athletics. Letsrun has some of the most virtue-signaling people I have ever encountered.
When you are presented with a challenge such as running a 1:59 marathon, you do whatever it takes. Roger Bannister was a med student, he looked to science in order to break 4:00. Emil Zatopek experimented in training in order to break 29. If you don't want to buy the shoes, don't buy them. The shoes will not be the ONLY thing propelling him to 1:59. That is what most of you grandstanders are acting like.
BasicPhysics wrote:
Not sure why everyone gets so bent out of shape about advances in shoe technology. If you have any sort of understanding of mechanics/physics you would realize that at the end of the day a shoe is a passive device and does not "give" any energy to a person. Energy is put in, and then you get some percentage back out that is less than 100% of what went in. The advances Nike and other shoe companies have been able to make are simply reducing losses and moving that input to output ratio slightly upward. There is a limit of how far a passive device like this can go... you can't go beyond 100%. All the energy to do the work of running is still coming from the human.
Until shoes start to become active devices with their own form of energy to give to a person (i.e. battery etc.), I'm not sure why people take issue with engineers working hard to improve the energy return efficiency of some foam, rubber, plates, and air pockets. Even a spring is a passive device with an energy return less than 100%, same rules apply. We commonly accept running times ran on a track, which is paved with a passive material designed to maximize energy return like Mondo... but if we do the same thing to shoes it is suddenly impure?
This has always been a thing in sport, the athlete provides the energy by burning calories, and the goal of the "equipment" is to waste as little of it as possible allowing more of it to do work. Let it go.
I can dunk off a gymnasts springboard.
You can strap on a pair of those grasshopper spring legs and jump over a soccer net.
locatelli wrote:
lol any cyclist would not tell you that. You still benefit from draft at 5+ metres
In triathlon, the draft zone, where drafting is prohibited, is a rectangle measuring 3 x 10-12 meters extending from the front tire. If you are passing, you can only remain in the draft zone for 15 seconds.
Cmon now... wrote:
For the last time.... Its not the carbon fiber plate that makes it so responsive and efficient.. The carbon fiber plate ads rigidity and stability to a soft energizing foam. We've gone through this message board after message board. If it was the Carbon Fiber Plate that made the shoe so spectacular, then competing brands would've came out with something just as good or regarded as superior if it was that plain and simple. We'd see the Zoom Fly, Carbon Rocket, Carbon X, Skechers Speed Elite, Brooks Hyperion Elite, Saucony's version, and all of these other carbon fiber models be comparable to the vaporfly. That's not the case. Convince me otherwise. Bet you can't do it without trying to throw insults first lol.
Yeah, just grab 3M Foam 343. I can cut you a deal on it. Sheets of it. HUGE sheets of it.
illinoisjones wrote:
The 4% and Next % are available to the public. Anyone can buy them, meaning you do not have to be elite to wear them. In fact, I would argue that the majority of people who wear vaporfly are not elite and do not receive these shoes through a Nike sponsorship, meaning those people buy them with their own money.
The majority of the criticism against vaporfly, which is directed at the elites who were them, is misguided because that is not the largest demographic who wears them. Eliud Kipchoge will get more hate for breaking 2:00 for wearing vaporfly, then a non-elite will get for breaking 3:00 wearing vaporfly. That is because no one has gone under 2:00. Right now Kipchoge and possibly Bekele are the only two people on the planet who have a possibility of breaking 2:00 and all you guys want to do is talk crap about the pair of shoes he is wearing?
Nevermind the fact that Kipchoge and the NN running team bust their ass week after week, sacrifice time with their families, do quality sessions as a cohesive team, and are probably the most well-run, organized juggernaut in distance running. This is a revolutionary event and you guys are giving Kipchoge crap about shoes that could help him accomplish an otherwise inconceivable landmark in athletics. Letsrun has some of the most virtue-signaling people I have ever encountered.
When you are presented with a challenge such as running a 1:59 marathon, you do whatever it takes. Roger Bannister was a med student, he looked to science in order to break 4:00. Emil Zatopek experimented in training in order to break 29. If you don't want to buy the shoes, don't buy them. The shoes will not be the ONLY thing propelling him to 1:59. That is what most of you grandstanders are acting like.
WTF does "virtue signaling" mean in this context? Pretty hard to guess where else you post, talking like that.
Why do people on Letsrun constantly try to boast about their income yet no-one seems to have a basic understanding of physics? Like other people have said, all this shoe does is try to increase the amount of energy returned back to the runner. No extra energy is being put in outside of the runner.
DC Wonk wrote:
As far as the drafting from the car, any cyclist will tell you that they are not close enough to the car to get any significant benefit from it. They would need to be running like 2 feet behind the bumper, which they aren't. The energy savings from drafting is all coming from the pacers in front of Kipchoge.
The drafting debate is interesting to me. You say the car is of no value but Ross Tucker said the opposite.
Tucker wrote:
That said, drafting behind a car with a giant wind break on top of it is probably worth a lot more, and Tesla was the unsung hero of this effort. There were reassurances prior to this effort that the car would be there only to give time and a guide to the projected finish, but it was clear from the outset that the car was doing the main drafting job – they even had lasers pointing to athletes where to run. I’ve seen aerodynamic models of the drafting effect of this car, by the way, and it makes a massive difference, and the distance they ran behind it was no accident. It was an engineering victory today, more than one of physiology.
Yet I just read an article where Jos Hermens - Kipchoge's agent - stated that the organizers are moving the car farther ahead as the one last time was too close and created swirling winds. So who is correct?
Tucker wrote:
The Monza weather wasn’t perfect. We only had a couple of days to choose from, and it was a little humid. We have a wider event window in Vienna to get the best weather. We also learned a lot of things in Monza. The car was too close to the runners; it created a bit of swirling wind. So in Vienna, the car will be 15 meters ahead of the runners rather than 10 meters. The drinks and carbohydrate supplying was not ideal in Monza; it will be better in Vienna. We will have a great team of pacers again.
Tucker article:
https://sportsscientists.com/2017/05/eliud-kipchoge-20025/?doing_wp_cron=1570766402.4219870567321777343750Hermens article:
https://www.podiumrunner.com/how-kenenisa-bekele-trained-for-comeback_178627PS. This started as a thread about Kipchoge's shoes but I'm turning it into the official race discussion thread.
The weather forecast looks pretty sick. The temperature is going to be mid 40, wind of 3 mph, with a dew point around 39F.
What time, locally, have they decided to start? 6.30?
BasicPhysics wrote:
Not sure why everyone gets so bent out of shape about advances in shoe technology. If you have any sort of understanding of mechanics/physics you would realize that at the end of the day a shoe is a passive device and does not "give" any energy to a person. Energy is put in, and then you get some percentage back out that is less than 100% of what went in. The advances Nike and other shoe companies have been able to make are simply reducing losses and moving that input to output ratio slightly upward. There is a limit of how far a passive device like this can go... you can't go beyond 100%. All the energy to do the work of running is still coming from the human.
Until shoes start to become active devices with their own form of energy to give to a person (i.e. battery etc.), I'm not sure why people take issue with engineers working hard to improve the energy return efficiency of some foam, rubber, plates, and air pockets. Even a spring is a passive device with an energy return less than 100%, same rules apply. We commonly accept running times ran on a track, which is paved with a passive material designed to maximize energy return like Mondo... but if we do the same thing to shoes it is suddenly impure?
This has always been a thing in sport, the athlete provides the energy by burning calories, and the goal of the "equipment" is to waste as little of it as possible allowing more of it to do work. Let it go.
This is the stupidest post in this thread. Roller blades are equally “passive”.
ChEaTeRShoeS wrote:
Why do people on Letsrun constantly try to boast about their income yet no-one seems to have a basic understanding of physics? Like other people have said, all this shoe does is try to increase the amount of energy returned back to the runner. No extra energy is being put in outside of the runner.
Cool what extra energy is put in by roller blades, or screw it a bike?
Should we give some biker the world record marathon time because the bike provided no extra energy?
Aussiestatman wrote:
What time, locally, have they decided to start? 6.30?
We'll find out later today. Currently the start window is 5AM-9AM local time, CEST.
The final unanswered question, the start time for the INEOS 1:59 Challenge, will be decided the afternoon before on Friday 11th October by the INEOS 1:59 Performance and Meteorology teams. The start window on Saturday 12th October is currently scheduled for 5AM-9AM CEST.
For the unwashed like me , what does the acronym INEOS represent?
Will this attempt be televised ?
FFF wrote:
Better watch the cant on the 1:59 road, or the corners. The greater the stack height, the greater the instability - and these ultra fast guys are all pronating like mad in the first place.
I can see an event-ending injury just as easily as I can see a sub-2, but I'm not sure how Nike will spin it after replays show Kipchoge essentially spraining an ankle.
Yeah, that is why I stopped wearing Hokas. Stepped in a hole and because of the stack height, the angle of twist was much greater than a lower stack and hurt my hip.
The unwashed wrote:
For the unwashed like me , what does the acronym INEOS represent?
You could use Google. Does anyone in practice post a question like this on the internet which takes longer than typing it into Google without already have done so? Are you looking for "humorous" responses?
BasicPhysics wrote:
Not sure why everyone gets so bent out of shape about advances in shoe technology. If you have any sort of understanding of mechanics/physics you would realize that at the end of the day a shoe is a passive device and does not "give" any energy to a person. Energy is put in, and then you get some percentage back out that is less than 100% of what went in. The advances Nike and other shoe companies have been able to make are simply reducing losses and moving that input to output ratio slightly upward. There is a limit of how far a passive device like this can go... you can't go beyond 100%. All the energy to do the work of running is still coming from the human.
Until shoes start to become active devices with their own form of energy to give to a person (i.e. battery etc.), I'm not sure why people take issue with engineers working hard to improve the energy return efficiency of some foam, rubber, plates, and air pockets. Even a spring is a passive device with an energy return less than 100%, same rules apply. We commonly accept running times ran on a track, which is paved with a passive material designed to maximize energy return like Mondo... but if we do the same thing to shoes it is suddenly impure?
This has always been a thing in sport, the athlete provides the energy by burning calories, and the goal of the "equipment" is to waste as little of it as possible allowing more of it to do work. Let it go.
Therefore there is nothing wrong with wearing inline skates to a running race as the same principle applies: "All the energy to do the work" of moving is still coming from the human. Can someone please get an inline skater to bandit this race and absolutely crush the 2hr barrier and we can let it go?
