SHELBY MF HOULIHAN

Hassan ran a 4:12 mile with horrible pacing months ago to break the world record. She is the only one in that field with a 1:56 PR in the 800. If you look at her 10k and 5k times in addition to her 800 PR, 3:51 is to be expected.

Hassan's 1500m time is equivalent to low 1.54 in the IAAF Points System.

Once East Africa has the same level of testing of the U.S., and can manage to not produce another bust every month, then I will consider that some of them might be clean. Same with Russia, Turkey, etc.. There is not a whiff of PED use with Shelby or the BTC, period.[/quote]

Right here everyone!

I am the most forgiving, let them fail a test first, trusting person on this message board. I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But, I'm starting to doubt every East African. I wonder about Turks, too.

The Scots? I think they're good because they train hard and more and more cheaters are getting caught.

VMMYYMMV wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Shelby was clearly in better shape than her 3:57 PR indicated last year. Dipping under 3:55 with this type of pacing is right on the money. No way she is on anything. I think Simpson would agree and she is as skeptical as anyone on the planet. Shelby just has all the tools and a great coach. Centro will run well tomorrow, might even medal.

Shelby was the first clean runner across the line, period.

They said that about Carl Lewis in the Seoul 100m in '88 after Ben Johnson got busted. And how many were doping in that race? Virtually the lot.

You think she would only have doped for Doha? Go to the back of the class.

I totally agree. Houlihan is a Nike athlete and her jump in personal bests are too coincidental for her to be clean. We must not forget Jerry Schumacher was brought in by Salazar after his heart attack. He worked with AlSal for a while before they parted ways. He's as dirty as AlSal, and so are his athletes.[/quote]

Get a grip. There is a such thing as "getting in the right race".

30:45X-C1978 wrote:

I totally agree. Houlihan is a Nike athlete and her jump in personal bests are too coincidental for her to be clean. We must not forget Jerry Schumacher was brought in by Salazar after his heart attack. He worked with AlSal for a while before they parted ways. He's as dirty as AlSal, and so are his athletes.

Get a grip. There is a such thing as "getting in the right race".[/quote]

Get a grip. There is such a thing as "getting the right juice".

Fixed.

jeff tallon wrote:

almost all the women in that race were doped to the gills,but it wasnt as bad as the mens shot put,which was even worse.

Stop it. Those three have been performing at that level for seasons

What's with these privileged white girls thinking they are the only ones that can be clean in this sport? Hassan is clean, she's just better. I wish Gault would have let her know, "hey, Silver and Bronze both ran 3:54, why couldn't you medal?" I think it comes down to actually executing not just "I wanted it so bad in training." Well, want it in Racing.

syruyaobiate wrote:

Few American children know what it's like to grow up barefoot and playing on grass fields, etc. They are coddled...

Children who get physical activity today do not just go out and run, climb, jump, build, etc. like many of us did. Even 3-year-olds are in organized sports. It's ridiculous.

Absolutely correct. This is one of the biggest problems with society today. It's really sad to see this. You rarely see "sandlot" baseball or football these days. You don't see kids out riding their bicycles as the neighborhood streets have been ceded to speeding automobiles. Hell, back in the day we wanted to get away from the adults instead of being dependent upon them for every little thing. Even the "out of shape" kids, the ones who didn't play the organized sports would still participate in the sandlot games from time to time. Nobody had to be a bench warmer.

And the cost of joining organized sports is prohibitive to many families. I've been told by a former volunteer coach at an inner city high school that the kids simply did not how to play baseball. WTF? He had to purchase used equipment for these kids out of his own pocket just to field a team.

klkjl wrote:

What's with these privileged white girls thinking they are the only ones that can be clean in this sport? Hassan is clean, she's just better. I wish Gault would have let her know, "hey, Silver and Bronze both ran 3:54, why couldn't you medal?" I think it comes down to actually executing not just "I wanted it so bad in training." Well, want it in Racing.

Please. Shelby wanted it and went for it. So did the women who beat her. So did the women that Shelby beat.

Maybe she might have placed higher with better position earlier in the race. Were she to ask me for advice, I'd suggest she sit down with Centro Jr. and have him dissect the race with her. Then say FIDO and start planning for next year.

shelby clean how do you know that, her time reduction of 7 plus sec in the last 2 years seem very suspicious

runn wrote:

Once East Africa has the same level of testing of the U.S., and can manage to not produce another bust every month, then I will consider that some of them might be clean. Same with Russia, Turkey, etc.. There is not a whiff of PED use with Shelby or the BTC, period.

Right here everyone!

I am the most forgiving, let them fail a test first, trusting person on this message board. I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But, I'm starting to doubt every East African. I wonder about Turks, too.

The Scots? I think they're good because they train hard and more and more cheaters are getting caught.[/quote]

Test east Africans every day and they still have numerous Comparative Advantages at distances longer than 600m:

1) Most east Africans living at elevation, live in a temperature range from (40 to 80) F;

2) Most east Africans living at elevation have lived at altitude long enough to mutate genes to make them resistant to acute & chronic altitude sickness [NIKE and their altitude tents will not mutate genes];

3) East Africans living in their home countries get to enjoy roughly 12 hour days & 12 hour nights year around since many east African nations are near equator.

4) I know futbol/soccer is a more popular sport in most east African nations, but futbol/soccer does not ruin one from being a runner [Am. football competes for (100 to 800)m athletes];

5) Many east Africans believe they will be the best runners.

rijk wrote:

Please. Shelby wanted it and went for it. So did the women who beat her. So did the women that Shelby beat.

Shelby didn't go for a darn thing. She sat back there in typical American wimp fashion and tried to pick up a garbage piece via others collapsing in front of her.

I've seen it for 40+ years and it is disgraceful. You think the Kenyans or Ethiopians are scared of that type of thing? You think they care at all about that type of strategy? They laugh. Americans can send out one Shelby Houlian after another for decade after decade and those countries won't care at all. Oh wonderful, some dainty American record was nudged a little bit, back there in rallying irrelevant 4th or 5th place.

Faith Kipyegon went for it. Hassan made the decisive move from the back of the pack to the lead about 25 seconds into the race. Kipyegon was not at peak conditioning or form like 2016 or 2017. She would have been capable of better than 3:54 in those years if needed. But even this version of Kipyegon wasn't going to meekly sit back there like Shelby Houlian and allow Sifan Hissan to obliterate the field and win uncontested like Chepkoech or Ayana.

Kipyegon quickly sensed what was going on and circled outside to cover Hassan's move. Thankfully we now have a handful of Americans who are bold and intelligent to do that type of thing. Rupp has done it. Jager has done it. Brazier will do it. A few others.

American coaches who teach or tolerate the wimp stretch runner style should be immediately banished and shamed. Kenyans and Ethiopians were terrified and frustrated by Mo Farah because he could defeat them at their own game...controlling at the front and then smartly devastating at the finish.

One generation of Kenyans and Ethiopians after another run that way. Not exactly a coincidence. It is by far the most effective strategy. Not everyone will be elite enough to pull it off but if you keep teaching and demanding that front runner style then the ones who are ultra elite will be exactly where you need them to dictate one outcome after another.

east Africans @ elevation wrote:

runn wrote:

Once East Africa has the same level of testing of the U.S., and can manage to not produce another bust every month, then I will consider that some of them might be clean. Same with Russia, Turkey, etc.. There is not a whiff of PED use with Shelby or the BTC, period.

Right here everyone!

I am the most forgiving, let them fail a test first, trusting person on this message board. I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But, I'm starting to doubt every East African. I wonder about Turks, too.

The Scots? I think they're good because they train hard and more and more cheaters are getting caught.

Test east Africans every day and they still have numerous Comparative Advantages at distances longer than 600m:

1) Most east Africans living at elevation, live in a temperature range from (40 to 80) F;

2) Most east Africans living at elevation have lived at altitude long enough to mutate genes to make them resistant to acute & chronic altitude sickness [NIKE and their altitude tents will not mutate genes];

3) East Africans living in their home countries get to enjoy roughly 12 hour days & 12 hour nights year around since many east African nations are near equator.

4) I know futbol/soccer is a more popular sport in most east African nations, but futbol/soccer does not ruin one from being a runner [Am. football competes for (100 to 800)m athletes];

5) Many east Africans believe they will be the best runners.[/quote]

You're right and imagine if making $5k a year made you comfortably well off in the USA?

But, recent results are showing that Westerners can compete.

Is this really an AR? It was basically run indoors (air conditioned stadium, protected from wind). The tiny hole in the roof doesn't make it outdoors. Not an indoor record either (oversized track).

notrump wrote:

Is this really an AR? It was basically run indoors (air conditioned stadium, protected from wind). The tiny hole in the roof doesn't make it outdoors. Not an indoor record either (oversized track).

The same could be said of all the WRs/WLs set in Doha. It seems to have taken until 2019 for stadium designers to properly structure facilities for consistently fast times. Until now, outdoor records have been largely dependent on luck with the weather. Doha eliminated that variable and we saw athletes taking the paces out more aggressively, making for more exciting races overall.

It will be interesting to see how the Hayward renovation stacks up. BTW I am a believer that 300m indoor flat tracks should be allowed for indoor records, as is the case for NCAA qualifying. They are no faster than properly-banked 200m tracks (segue' for indoors heh)

If Kipyegon and the Ethiopian are doping then it goes without saying that so is the GOLD medalist as while as the top 8 as the performances from 2-8 were too close to be any different and if 2-8 are doping then #1 got to be as well.

I personally think in the top 8 there are maybe only 2 women taking some type of PED.

YMMV wrote:

notrump wrote:

Is this really an AR? It was basically run indoors (air conditioned stadium, protected from wind). The tiny hole in the roof doesn't make it outdoors. Not an indoor record either (oversized track).

The same could be said of all the WRs/WLs set in Doha. It seems to have taken until 2019 for stadium designers to properly structure facilities for consistently fast times. Until now, outdoor records have been largely dependent on luck with the weather. Doha eliminated that variable and we saw athletes taking the paces out more aggressively, making for more exciting races overall.

It will be interesting to see how the Hayward renovation stacks up. BTW I am a believer that 300m indoor flat tracks should be allowed for indoor records, as is the case for NCAA qualifying. They are no faster than properly-banked 200m tracks (segue' for indoors heh)

Air conditioned track to me is equivalent to a perfect condition outdoor track on the right night.