Hfhdjddjj wrote:
Again, there is no way they did 8x1200 at 59-61 pace. If they did then they’re in WR 3k, 5k and10k shape or they left their entire season in that session.
You cant make that assessment unless you know the rest they had between intervals. Having 5 minutes rest vs 90 seconds rest completely change the workout
mooonshot wrote:
Watching that video, I don't see why Jakob can't attack the 7:20 3000m record from Komen.
I think in a perfectly paced race in the right conditions, Jakob could run 3:40/3:40 back to back.
Are you serious?
Most of the letsrun forum posters like to say this record is stronger than the 1500 and 5k records. Jakob isn't Threatening world records on either side of the 7:20 3k and you think he can run this fast for the middle distance? He should go for the 3k steeple too if that's the case. He has run 3:30 and 13:02 and lost both times this year. Still a very great year but this record would require someone much more dominating in my opinion.
The only people in recent history that are threats to me would be Mo Farah(arguably a low 12:40s guy but we will never know) and if Kejelcha shows 3:27-28 speed then he is a threat to the record right now. Other than that nobody has a chance
westsouthrunner wrote:
Most of the letsrun forum posters like to say this record is stronger than the 1500 and 5k records.
7:20 is not stronger than 12:37, no reasonable person should argue that. There is a 14 second decay in 1500m pace from the 1500m WR to the 3k WR, and only 7 second further decay to the 5k WR. Based on exponential interpolation of equivalent performance, with a 3:26 and 12:37 the 3k WR should be around 7:18-19.
does anyone know what the guy who finished third's time,was? im guessing around 3.50?
I agree that Jakob is not in a position to break WR´s for the moment.
But I think that he might challenge the 1500m WR next year and the 3000 and 5000m WR´s within some few years too provided he continues his efficient training and avoids serious illness or injury.
kartelite, I would definitely argue that 7:20 is stronger than 12:37 and I am not only reasonable but experienced. All the greats have taken shots at 7:20, no one has come close. Gebrselassie and Komen both ran 12:39 and remember Bekele had zero absolute speed. He could close in 52, but he could not run sub-3:32 to save his life. Bekele, Geb, El G, Morceli, Farah, Lagat, you name it, anyone in this sport has run a hot 3000m as a professional. I'm sorry to break it to you, but 12:37 will go down shortly. The new Ethiopians are already within reach with 12:43 not even well paced like Bekele's WR. My point on Jakob and the 3000m WR is this: watch the race. Watch the effort. If he does not shift into a sustained kick, how long do you think he can keep 3:40/1500m pace going in that race? I think he could definitely get past 2400m, thus the WR is in play.
kartelite wrote:
7:20 is not stronger than 12:37, no reasonable person should argue that. There is a 14 second decay in 1500m pace from the 1500m WR to the 3k WR, and only 7 second further decay to the 5k WR. Based on exponential interpolation of equivalent performance, with a 3:26 and 12:37 the 3k WR should be around 7:18-19.
kartelite wrote:
7:20 is not stronger than 12:37, no reasonable person should argue that. There is a 14 second decay in 1500m pace from the 1500m WR to the 3k WR, and only 7 second further decay to the 5k WR. Based on exponential interpolation of equivalent performance, with a 3:26 and 12:37 the 3k WR should be around 7:18-19.
You mean "could be" and not "should be".
You need three reference points to draw such a conclusion. Now, there is only 2 points in your equation. You might use the 800 WR or 10k WR.
kartelite wrote:
westsouthrunner wrote:
Most of the letsrun forum posters like to say this record is stronger than the 1500 and 5k records.
7:20 is not stronger than 12:37, no reasonable person should argue that. There is a 14 second decay in 1500m pace from the 1500m WR to the 3k WR, and only 7 second further decay to the 5k WR. Based on exponential interpolation of equivalent performance, with a 3:26 and 12:37 the 3k WR should be around 7:18-19.
If you look at some of the "GOAT" threads ( the ones before Kipchoge ran 2:01. They think he is in the discussion somehow lol)
you'll see quite a few people mentioning that the 3k record is stronger than the 5k. Maybe not the 1500 but theres a good bit of people who seem to think this. However I am not one of them. 5k is run way more than the 3k. I know it isn't always run all out but still way more 5ks than 3ks.
If we see Jakob either winning a sub 12:55 race or really controlling a 13:00 race combined with even the speed he has now maybe I'd give him 7:25-8. If he continues to improve at this rate he has about 2 years in my opinion before making a real stab at this record. This record has stood the test of time against pretty much every type of distance runner for a reason.
Halviking wrote:
Jakob I rad 3.36.33 solo at the Norwegian championship
It looks like he was jogging.
43
1.43
2.41.5
3.36.33
Editor's note: Here is an article from the local press:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&u=https://www.nrk.no/sport/overlegent-nm-gull-til-jakob-ingebrigtsen-_-men-kongepokalen-anser-de-som-en-umulighet-1.14648030&prev=search
He's not jogging, he's just fit, very strong, and smooth. He's working.
More interesting is to look at the actual speed decay of Komen and Bekele from 1500 to 5000m, rather than compare an El G world record to that of Komen and Bekele. Komen ran 3:29/3:46/7:20/12:40. Komen's 12:40 is 3:48 pace for 1500m, which is 8 seconds slower than his 3k pace (3:40). His 3k pace (3:40) in turn is 11 seconds slower than his 1500m pace (3:29). Is it the case that the speed decay from 1500 to 3k should be the same as 3k to 5000m? Bekele's 1500 pace is 3:32, his 3k pace 7:25 (3:42.5/1500), his 5000m pace 12:37 (3:47/1500m), and his 10000m pace 26:17 (3:56.55/1500m). He has a slowdown of 10.5 seconds from 1500 to 3k, 4.5 seconds from 3k to 5k, and 9.55 seconds from 5000m to 10000m. Arguably, his 1500m is weak, his 3k even weaker, his 5k his strongest, and his 10k weak due to lack of pacing. (His pacing in the 5000m only lasted 2k and wasn't that great; he made the race by blasting his last 3k). What slowdown should we expect from event to event with EPO athletes?
kartelite wrote:
westsouthrunner wrote:
Most of the letsrun forum posters like to say this record is stronger than the 1500 and 5k records.
7:20 is not stronger than 12:37, no reasonable person should argue that. There is a 14 second decay in 1500m pace from the 1500m WR to the 3k WR, and only 7 second further decay to the 5k WR. Based on exponential interpolation of equivalent performance, with a 3:26 and 12:37 the 3k WR should be around 7:18-19.
jeff tallon wrote:
does anyone know what the guy who finished third's time,was? im guessing around 3.50?
Jacob Boutera 3:46:65,
Place number six was 3.50, but not very interesting really given that Norway is a wintersportsnation with the populous about the 20th most populated state in the US.
Komen ran 12:39, not 12:40, just a correction, so your math is completely wrong. That's like saying Bekele ran 26:20.
zxcvzxcv wrote:
More interesting is to look at the actual speed decay of Komen and Bekele from 1500 to 5000m, rather than compare an El G world record to that of Komen and Bekele.
Komen ran 3:29/3:46/7:20/12:40.
Komen's 12:40 is 3:48 pace for 1500m, which is 8 seconds slower than his 3k pace (3:40). His 3k pace (3:40) in turn is 11 seconds slower than his 1500m pace (3:29). Is it the case that the speed decay from 1500 to 3k should be the same as 3k to 5000m?
Bekele's 1500 pace is 3:32, his 3k pace 7:25 (3:42.5/1500), his 5000m pace 12:37 (3:47/1500m), and his 10000m pace 26:17 (3:56.55/1500m). He has a slowdown of 10.5 seconds from 1500 to 3k, 4.5 seconds from 3k to 5k, and 9.55 seconds from 5000m to 10000m. Arguably, his 1500m is weak, his 3k even weaker, his 5k his strongest, and his 10k weak due to lack of pacing. (His pacing in the 5000m only lasted 2k and wasn't that great; he made the race by blasting his last 3k).
What slowdown should we expect from event to event with EPO athletes?
kartelite wrote:
7:20 is not stronger than 12:37, no reasonable person should argue that. There is a 14 second decay in 1500m pace from the 1500m WR to the 3k WR, and only 7 second further decay to the 5k WR. Based on exponential interpolation of equivalent performance, with a 3:26 and 12:37 the 3k WR should be around 7:18-19.
very few of the best Norwegian CC skiers would be really good at running. Johaug is an anomaly, Sundby, Bjprgen, Northug are all too heavy (even if they wold lose upper body muscle mass).
yyy wrote:
very few of the best Norwegian CC skiers would be really good at running. Johaug is an anomaly, Sundby, Bjprgen, Northug are all too heavy (even if they wold lose upper body muscle mass).
Yes?
yyy wrote:
very few of the best Norwegian CC skiers would be really good at running. Johaug is an anomaly, Sundby, Bjprgen, Northug are all too heavy (even if they wold lose upper body muscle mass).
Ben True. Sure, probably won't be good in the marathon. But probably would be very solid in the 10000 and XC.
I have no idea why the Norwegian skiers became a subject here, but nevermind.
The Kings Cup has been discussed, and it turns out: Even if Karsten was awarded the Kongepokal, Jakob beat him to be the best European Athlete for the month of July, awarded after votings on social media platforms.
Hi Coevett!
?&;:#€£*%=÷×+ wrote:
Ben True. Sure, probably won't be good in the marathon. But probably would be very solid in the 10000 and XC.
Petter Northug is 83 kg/185 cm, which is too much for pretty much any distance beyond the 800, even if you consider loss of upper-body mass.
(He's also not a particularly good runner, with a 3000 PR of 8.51)
yes, Bjorgen is 64 kg.
mooonshot wrote:
kartelite, I would definitely argue that 7:20 is stronger than 12:37 and I am not only reasonable but experienced. All the greats have taken shots at 7:20, no one has come close. Gebrselassie and Komen both ran 12:39 and remember Bekele had zero absolute speed. He could close in 52, but he could not run sub-3:32 to save his life. Bekele, Geb, El G, Morceli, Farah, Lagat, you name it, anyone in this sport has run a hot 3000m as a professional.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but 12:37 will go down shortly. The new Ethiopians are already within reach with 12:43 not even well paced like Bekele's WR.
My point on Jakob and the 3000m WR is this: watch the race. Watch the effort. If he does not shift into a sustained kick, how long do you think he can keep 3:40/1500m pace going in that race? I think he could definitely get past 2400m, thus the WR is in play.
kartelite wrote:
7:20 is not stronger than 12:37, no reasonable person should argue that. There is a 14 second decay in 1500m pace from the 1500m WR to the 3k WR, and only 7 second further decay to the 5k WR. Based on exponential interpolation of equivalent performance, with a 3:26 and 12:37 the 3k WR should be around 7:18-19.
I'd argue Bekele had more top speed than both Komen and Geb but just didn't get in a race that showed it....did he do like 2 1,500m? If he can close in a 52, and has his type of engine, there is no reason why he couldn't of gone faster than 3:32 in the right circumstance.
I'd also disagree Bekele had any good efforts at the 3,000m WR. If you watch his 7:25 or 7:26 races, the pacing was awful and any chance of being close to the WR was out the door within the first couple laps. Not saying he would have broken it for sure but i think a good effort would have been a lot close the 7:20