Kipchoge dominance is simply too good to be true

Coevett wrote:

But back to Kipchoge, the Daily Mail has upset all of Kenya for questioning the legend .

The Dail Mail. Font of all knowledge for well informed Brits? Who could doubt their sincerity and open mindedness?

casual obsever wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Now that WADA has a lab in Nairobi, within months the first big name Kenyan marathoner is busted as a result - the world record holder for the half-marathoner. A week before that, another Kenyan was busted as a result seemingly of the improved ability to form ABPs of Kenyan runners - and it just so happens that that guy (Cyrus Rutto) has the same coach as Kipchoge (Patrick Sang).

+1

People here keep ignoring that, but the often praised Sang has officially been outed as a coach of a drug cheat. And we know from coach GOAT Canova himself that coaches know whether or not their athletes are clean.

Remember on here in the last two months Renato claimed that he and Patrick Sang held some convention to push antidoping. Comedy gold. Lolz

Runningart2004 wrote:

I think it’s incredibly childish and naive to think ANY athlete winning Olympic titles in ANY sport is clean.

Just assume anyone with a chance of winning these big time marathons is doped and it’s a fair race.

No one watching the NFL is online debating whether or not they juice (they do).

Alan

Congratulations Alan.

You make the most logical post on this board and you manage to get Covette and Jon Orange united in their outrage at you. Though, judging by a post above, their bromance may be short lived.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Remember on here in the last two months Renato claimed that he and Patrick Sang held some convention to push antidoping. Comedy gold. Lolz

Maybe Kiptum and Rutto were just too busy to attend the convention. Kenyan elite athletes have extremely busy schedules....

Subway Surfers wrote:

If it's too good to be true, it isn't. But he is so entertaining to watch, Marathons need him.

Is it the arm sleeves that make him look so cool? ?

LOLZ, these are the sh*ttiest cliff notes ever bro. Your description of Kipchoge's career afeter 2004 on the track is especially hilarious.

I also really like how you pull the whole "18 year old" thing . He was not competing in a junior/youth event so who really gives a f*ck how old the guy is but also think about what him being older then means for what he is doing now.

Raddison wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I think it’s incredibly childish and naive to think ANY athlete winning Olympic titles in ANY sport is clean.

Just assume anyone with a chance of winning these big time marathons is doped and it’s a fair race.

No one watching the NFL is online debating whether or not they juice (they do).

Alan

Congratulations Alan.

You make the most logical post on this board and you manage to get Covette and Jon Orange united in their outrage at you. Though, judging by a post above, their bromance may be short lived.

I thought Alan was intelligent and a good anti BS ranter. Boy was I wrong. On the most important subject he should be ranting about, he is just another ill informed fool. And a coward to boot.

BTW did I mention that Lance Armstrong power outputs have been MASSIVELY EXAGGERATED!!!???

I might have mentioned it once or twice on other threads?

Jon Orange. wrote:

Taro wrote:

Yes, I want hear an exercise physiologist explain in detail how erythropoietin prevents muscle glycogen depletion (citing clinical evidence, of course).

You won't get an honest answer. If you ask a well know exercise physiologist awkward questions, they won't admit you have a point. They will just ignore you. That's how they retain their status. By being disingenuous.

Being able to run faster at a specified VO2, ie: improved running economy, is beneficial for all runners. I would argue that steroids are more beneficial long term due to increased protein turnover.

PS: I’m no Ex.Phys...just a lame guy with a BS.

Alan

My medicine degree suggests me that Kipchoge is on HIF stabilizers and maybe AICAR

Coevett wrote:

Dr James Ledingham wrote:

There are no doubts that the GB team has benefited from institutionalised doping, over decades. Ever since the inaugaration of Andy Norman as British athletics supremo and the professionalisation of amateur ranks. Before that, we had the British convicted dope trafficker David Jenkins, peddling all kinds of PEDs nationally and internationally yet athletes were hardly ever caught. Nowadays, doping in Sport is de facto. The debacles related to Team Sky and British Cycling, depict a veritable storyboard of wrongdoing and successful coverups in the plain light of day, right under the noses of anti-doping parties.

African nations do not enjoy the luxury of "inside protection" and this is the only difference.

I strongly suspect that your real name is something like Dr Ivan Pedovsky.

- The Captain of the GB Olympic team was convicted of doping

- The number of documented serial dodging or failing of doping tests involving British running and cycling World Champions, is legendary (all forgiven or reduced bans or exonerated)

- UK Athletics / British Cycling has a history of employing Doctors with specialist doping expertise eg James Ledingham (including exiles with Communist roots in East Germany, eg Heiko Salzwedel and life-banned teamwide doping Doctors eg Geert Leinders)

Extreme talent

No injuries

Consistency in training

Incredible training group

Incredibly training environment

Humble personality

Humble lifestyle

Doesn’t dwell on past successes

These traits add up to his consistent success. Lances body composition changed and he went from a mediocre rider to dominance. In contrast Kipchoge at a young age was a prodigy. This coupled with the aforementioned factors is the reason for his success.

It’s not the bike wrote:

Incredible training group

Incredibly training environment

Humble personality

Humble lifestyle

I was thinking about these elements specifically.

We've all watched these Nike videos and thus had the above viewpoints reinforced over and over again.

Therefore if it did transpire / was proven that Kipchoge was juiced would this implicate Nike for being so heavily involved in creating the overall illusion?

Dr James Ledingham wrote:

Coevett wrote:

I strongly suspect that your real name is something like Dr Ivan Pedovsky.

- The Captain of the GB Olympic team was convicted of doping

- The number of documented serial dodging or failing of doping tests involving British running and cycling World Champions, is legendary (all forgiven or reduced bans or exonerated)

- UK Athletics / British Cycling has a history of employing Doctors with specialist doping expertise eg James Ledingham (including exiles with Communist roots in East Germany, eg Heiko Salzwedel and life-banned teamwide doping Doctors eg Geert Leinders)

Don't waste your time educating C, he's a well known racist troll.

Yup, Kipchoge reponds better to the Vapor fly X% than anyone else. Just like different athletes respond to EPO differently.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Jon Orange. wrote:

You won't get an honest answer. If you ask a well know exercise physiologist awkward questions, they won't admit you have a point. They will just ignore you. That's how they retain their status. By being disingenuous.

Being able to run faster at a specified VO2, ie: improved running economy, is beneficial for all runners. I would argue that steroids are more beneficial long term due to increased protein turnover.

PS: I’m no Ex.Phys...just a lame guy with a BS.

Alan

Thanks for the reply. I hope I can drag you away from the doping dogma. It's highly contagious.

Increased protein turnover? Well I think that fitness and recovery are inter related. You do less muscle damage the more energy efficient you become.

Kipchoge is a very cool character. He isn't going to be swayed by the same beliefs as younger more impressionable Kenyans who are victims of the exploitative European coaches pushing doping practice onto them.

I have no faith in any of the political hierarchy to educate themselves or the masses in basic physiology. Even ex phys 'experts' don't seem to undertand the difference between fuel use (oxygen and glycogen etc) and energy output. If I was in a room with 1000 of them, I would probably be the only one who knows the claims for EPO and blood boosting are complety impossible. Even 1% improvement is a thermoregulatory impossiblity, but they claim 3, 5, 10, 15% or even more. It's scary how bad the pseudoscience is.

Ok, so in this forum EPO and all other forms of blood doping don't work because there isn't an univocal explanation for the benefits. Remember: coaches are piooners and scientist are behind, trying to understand what does work and what doesn't

Jon Orange. wrote:

Yes, I want hear an exercise physiologist explain in detail how erythropoietin prevents muscle glycogen depletion (citing clinical evidence, of course).

You won't get an honest answer. If you ask a well know exercise physiologist awkward questions, they won't admit you have a point. They will just ignore you. That's how they retain their status. By being disingenuous.[/quote]

Increasing red cell count through EPO/doping will raise the aerobic threshold of an athlete by allowing more oxygen per unit time to be delivered the working muscles. Therefore the muscles will be able to work aerobically at a higher work rate as more oxygen is available through its enhanced delivery to the muscles. When working aerobically the muscles will be able to use more fats/triglycerol as fuel rather than glycogen only. These substrates yield more energy (ATP) per unit mass than glycogen. Therefore over time the muscles will be less gylcogen depleted.

It’s not the bike wrote:

Extreme talent

No injuries

Consistency in training

Incredible training group

Incredibly training environment

Humble personality

Humble lifestyle

Doesn’t dwell on past successes

These traits add up to his consistent success. Lances body composition changed and he went from a mediocre rider to dominance. In contrast Kipchoge at a young age was a prodigy. This coupled with the aforementioned factors is the reason for his success.

Lance was World Champion in 1993 , three years prior to his cancer diagnosis ergo not mediocre, not by a country mile.

If it was really so clear that he was doping then he would already have gotten caught during one of the many out of competition tests he has had.