Asbel Kiprop on the verge of suicide /threatens to misuse police-issued guns to earn “justice”

Can Kiprop still compete in non-sanction ultra thons?

Only if he openly dopes at aid stations.

People of a variety of shapes are fast.

Nice idea but the execution here is horrendous. 3/10

Bjørn Dæhlie wrote:

TN-runner wrote:

Asbel Kiprop is clean.

As clean as Team Sky.

Skeleton man needs to pay the piper y'all

LetsRun.com wrote:

We have merged two threads on this. Hopefully he does not harm himself or anyone else.

If he is really innocent the truth needs to come out. If not, it needs to come out as well.

It sounds more like harm someone else or what use the words justice?

He needs therapy though nothing is worth such drastic action.

10 seconds ? There is no limit to the ridiculous beliefs of people not knowing anything about athletics.

This means that every athlete running 3'36" in clean way (till now about 500 all-time, and not everybody doped, of sure) could run faster than the WR of El Guerrouj taking EPO.

But of course when somebody replaces the brain with the belly, this is the result.....

Hey Renato, you've got to give us your take on the Kiptum positive.

Renato Canova wrote:

10 seconds ? There is no limit to the ridiculous beliefs of people not knowing anything about athletics.

This means that every athlete running 3'36" in clean way (till now about 500 all-time, and not everybody doped, of sure) could run faster than the WR of El Guerrouj taking EPO.

But of course when somebody replaces the brain with the belly, this is the result.....

Well Casual Observer isn't exactly known for his logical thinking skills.

Why is there no punishment for the agent and coach of Kiprop? The race organizers who invited him to their races should also be punished/fined in some way. So should the doctor or pharmacist who sold him the EPO. It does not seem right that Kiprop alone is being punished for something for which several other people are also responsible.

When I saw the title I was worried that Kiprop had threatened to top himself...but he is in fact threatening to shoot those who conspired against him ? Well I suppose it's also worrying !

Renato Canova wrote:

10 seconds ? There is no limit to the ridiculous beliefs of people not knowing anything about athletics.

This means that every athlete running 3'36" in clean way (till now about 500 all-time, and not everybody doped, of sure) could run faster than the WR of El Guerrouj taking EPO.

But of course when somebody replaces the brain with the belly, this is the result.....

This made me chuckle. I'm not a fan of his coaching but when he calls people out here he does make it funny.

I don't change my opinion about the effects of EPO, also after the new of the ban of Kiptum. I'm sure that is possible to run at the WR pace for athletes completely clean, of course when there is the right talent, and the right training.

The general assumption that, if the number 3 in the world is doped, OF COURSE the other 2 athletes faster than him MUST be doped (because is not possible that a clean athlete can beat a doped athlete) is a total bullshit, because in that equation there are not the two most important variables : TALENT AND TRAINING.

People thinking in that way could be right only supposing that ALL THE ATHLETES could have the same talent, and that different training systems don't exist (so the training can produce, ALWAYS, the same final result).

But the talent is not the same, and who never had the opportunity to work with one EXTRA-TALENTED athlete can't also imagine what talent is. I saw Bolt winning World Junior Championships in 2002 when was not yest 16 years old, against sprinters 3 years older than him, and immediately said "this guy in the future will be the new WR holder of 200m and 400m (next year, in 2003, when 16 and half years old, he ran 400m in 45"35). And I think that the NORMAL gap in 200m between the best Bolt and the second best in the World had to be 6-7 meters, SO EVENTUALLY ARE THE OTHER ATHLETES UNDER 19"70 THAT HAVE TO DOPE FOR RUNNING SO CLOSE TO HIM.

The same with Shaheen. The first time I saw him in 1998 (he was 16 years old, and was in training in Iten followed by Joseph Ngure, at that time assistant coach of Brother Colm during the training camp organized for juniors in December, together with Cornelius Chirchir), I said "I hope in the future to have the opportunity to coach athletes like these two. With that talent, I see the possibility to run 3'25" (Cornelius) and 7'50" (steeple), and, when really I could coach Stephen Cherono (still junior), I was not happy of his final WR, because I know he could run under 7'50".

Sometimes there are athletes with something absolutely bigger than other competitors in the same events.

This was the case of Kenenisa Bekele, of Bolt, of Shaheen, of Edwin Moses, of Ashton Eaton, of Zelezny, of Jonathan Edwards, of Yelena Isinbayeva, and of Eliud Kipchoge. All these athletes assemble together big physiological, morphological and biomechanical talent, with incredible mental ability, in terms of continuity, concentration, courage, motivation, and application.

Second factor : TRAINING.

I saw several times in my life big changes, in short time, with athletes already coming from mani years of career, after changing their training, increasing volume and quality of their workouts. Not always a sudden improvement, after years of similar performances at lower level, means doping. We need to know the history of their life before giving any opinion about the athletes. How many times somebody had years of not professional training (having, for example, a full-time job), and, when finally had the opportunity to chose a professional road in athletics, started to train very much more and better, improving everything around the athletic activity, such as rest, recovery, physical assistance with massages and therapies, etc... ?

In Kenya, how many times we met runners (already 30 years old) who worked as farmers in their village, running only 4 times per week, competing in small local races, with problems to eat twice per day because the lack of money, but able running a full marathon in 2:17 - 2:20 in those conditions, who, finally joining a camp where possible to train with a strong group, and to eat twice per day, in 1 year of training were able to move to 2:07 or better without any problem ?

Kiptum belongs to that category. He started his official activity already 27 years old, running a lot of local competition in Kenya, and winning almost every time. With very little training, in 2015 he ran his first marathon in Rabat arriving 3rd in 2:11:36. Next year he had a good HM in Copenhagen running 59'36".

Everybody in Rift Valley knew his great talent, and in my opinion, especially after running the marathon in 2:05:26 in Amsterdam in 2017, he was already one of the group of athletes able to run around 58'30".

What can give me some doubt is that last year, in Copenhagen (16.09), he lost the race by one my athlete (Daniel Kipchumba), running only 59'09", without showing particular shape. However, the WR in Valencia was about 40 days later, and athletes of big talent in 40 days can change very quickly their shape.

What I can say, about the training in altitude, is that it's not possible to justify fluctuations, in the BP, if ALL the OOC tests are in altitude. We can see some difference about the level of Hb and Hct between some test in altitude and at sea level, due to these two different situations ; but never we can see fluctuations if the test are in the same situation (always at sea level, or always in altitude). In the case of Kiptum, all his OOC tests were in altitude, and if there is some fluctuation, this is probably due to the assumption of some medicine.

Coevett wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

10 seconds ? There is no limit to the ridiculous beliefs of people not knowing anything about athletics.

This means that every athlete running 3'36" in clean way (till now about 500 all-time, and not everybody doped, of sure) could run faster than the WR of El Guerrouj taking EPO.

But of course when somebody replaces the brain with the belly, this is the result.....

Well Casual Observer isn't exactly known for his logical thinking skills.

Neither are you, or you would have seen easily that it wasn't Casual Observer that said that but a lame parody attempt (likely by you, given the lack of creativity).

jaliet wrote:

He threatened to shoot himself on a Facebook post today.

If he feels like someone framed him and knows who it is, then he should take it out on the perpetrators, not himself, his friends and family.

Having a positive attitude wrote:

jaliet wrote:

He threatened to shoot himself on a Facebook post today.

If he feels like someone framed him and knows who it is, then he should take it out on the perpetrators, not himself, his friends and family.

You can say that but it's based on speculation, never can be proved, and therefore is not true.

Certainly such speculation should NOT be used as a basis for testing and disqualification of athletes.

Again that's only speculation based on what you have seen, closing your eyes to differences - oh those must be drugs or something - but the speculation can never can be proved to be true in all cases.

No, because if some medication can cause fluctuation, then someone normal and not medicine can also cause fluctuation.

Tests based on fluctuations make no sense. One person can have certain values as long as always the same, but someone else who reaches the same values but with fluctuation is then accused of medicating, which has NO scientific basis.

It is a shame to accuse / assume people of medicating who have never done any such things.

*some normal things and not medicine can also cause fluctuations

Of course there are reasons for fluctuations, different from the assumption of medicines. But a percentage of fluctuation bigger than 10% is very suspicious if the fluctuation is going UP, not if the fluctuation is going DOWN.

You can have, for example, normal values between 44 and 46 of Hct, and suddenly going to 52, in natural way. This is clearly the effect of the assumption of some pharma product.

Instead, if you have normal values between 44 and 46, and your fluctuation at the moment brings the values to 39, of course this is the indication of some sickness or disease.

The fact to have normal values for long time, but some peak out of the norm some times, shows that the probability of assumption of some substance is very high.

For example, Arne Gabius had, in 7 years of OOC tests, values of Hct always included between 41.6 and 42.8, when at sea level, and 42.6 till 43.9 when in altitude. The funny thing is that his values WERE NOT CONNECTED WITH THE LEVEL OF PERFORMANCES, since were the same when he was in top shape, but also when he was completely out of shape, AND THIS CAN DRIVE TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE LEVEL OF HCT ARE NOT SO RELEVANT IN ORDER TO RUN AT THE MAXIMAL PERSONAL LEVEL.

Coming back to Kiptum, I'm a little bit surprised for his ban, because I think the number of tests OOC is not very high. He was not in the whereabout system till 2018, and of sure before Valencia was not tested OOC in Kenya, because his PB was not so significative. In this case, the number of values out of a well determined personal range can't be very high, and there is room for further investigations.