Im not so sure about that one, he literally give the source (runnersworld) and that is basically just their guess then you scroll up a slight bit from that and it literally says that they do threshold sessions 4hours-6hours apart whereas runnersworld completely ignore this while making their guess on the weekly program.
It's not written in stone. It specifies 'base training".
Also it's 3-5 sessions per week implying it varies a bit.
They've said what they do but you seem to be looking for some exact schedule like a recipe.
Thank you but no, i am not at all looking for a recipe just absorbing the information. So they just average 3-5 sessions per week but more towards the 3 side during base season, in other words the runnerstribe example is probably like what they do during base?
Former Sub 14:00 wrote:
I don’t know what kind of weights they do but I do know they do them. I have seen pictures of them squating and using kettlebells. To be honest, they do not have “phases” in the traditional sense. Once they build up to mileage they start adding back in their normal routine and literally maintain that all year until when they near competition. At that point they do less threshold sessions and substitute the hills for race pace work.
One of my friends who is younger than I am but was quite and elite American runner went and trained with them last year overseas for 6 weeks. He told me of their schedule and it generally follows what most here have posted. Threshold sessions twice a day, two times a week. Then the hill session.
He said he absolutely got blasted on the hills and it was very difficult for him. He averaged about 17k of threshold on the threshold days. He told me that their days in between were uncomfortable for him to run with them because they went so slowly. They relied A LOT on their HR monitors. At one point they WALKED while going up a hill because their HR climbed too high. They don’t do any real long runs either. He mostly kept up his 18 milers but it wasn’t sustainable with the aerobic workload he was putting in. During that period he claimed he was the most fit aerobically he had ever been in his life.
It’s a very monontous and not so sexy system but it seems to work. The only transition phases there are is the period where workouts are included again and the period where they back off to get ready to peak.
If you don't mind me asking:
Did your friend comment on the use of Lactate meters? Obviously they rely on them a lot with their sessions, did he do so as well?
This may be a silly question, but do they do the different length repeats so they can run different paces and still get a "threshold" effect? So the 400s are a bit faster than the 1k and 2k repeats? Or am I understanding that wrong?
Thanks
The article says they are at 10k pace so if they are faster it's certainly not that much faster.
HobbyJogging.com wrote:
Former Sub 14:00 wrote:
I don’t know what kind of weights they do but I do know they do them. I have seen pictures of them squating and using kettlebells. To be honest, they do not have “phases” in the traditional sense. Once they build up to mileage they start adding back in their normal routine and literally maintain that all year until when they near competition. At that point they do less threshold sessions and substitute the hills for race pace work.
One of my friends who is younger than I am but was quite and elite American runner went and trained with them last year overseas for 6 weeks. He told me of their schedule and it generally follows what most here have posted. Threshold sessions twice a day, two times a week. Then the hill session.
He said he absolutely got blasted on the hills and it was very difficult for him. He averaged about 17k of threshold on the threshold days. He told me that their days in between were uncomfortable for him to run with them because they went so slowly. They relied A LOT on their HR monitors. At one point they WALKED while going up a hill because their HR climbed too high. They don’t do any real long runs either. He mostly kept up his 18 milers but it wasn’t sustainable with the aerobic workload he was putting in. During that period he claimed he was the most fit aerobically he had ever been in his life.
It’s a very monontous and not so sexy system but it seems to work. The only transition phases there are is the period where workouts are included again and the period where they back off to get ready to peak.
If you don't mind me asking:
Did your friend comment on the use of Lactate meters? Obviously they rely on them a lot with their sessions, did he do so as well?
This may be a silly question, but do they do the different length repeats so they can run different paces and still get a "threshold" effect? So the 400s are a bit faster than the 1k and 2k repeats? Or am I understanding that wrong?
Thanks
The schedule that many have posted I am sure is valid if it was sourced from Henrik. However, when my friend trained with them and I asked him about that kind of schedule he had no idea what I was talking about. When he was up there they did no 25x400m sessions or any sessions measured by distance for that matter. Everything he did with them was by time. They would do sessions of 3min, 6min, 8min (I believe), and up to 10min. The most I think anyone has posted beforehand of them doing is 2k-3k reps. So the 10min sessions were surprising to me. The hardest sessions that he did was 4x10min with a very short rest in between.....then he came back in the afternoon for some more threshold.
The reason why everything was based on time I am guessing is because they were not in Norway but away at training camp. He did not mention the time it took to run up these hills as they did not time them either. It was not a very steep hill, it was moderate and about ~200m in length and they just basically booked it up the thing very fast but with some control.
I know they do use lactate meters (you can actually see it on their documentary tv show thats translated on youtube), but when I asked about them using it up there he said "no" and that it surprised him because he had heard so much about it. They mostly used the HR monitor which I personally feel is inaccurate. All of this was interesting to me as many others have stated that they do very highly controlled threshold sessions based on distance, lactate readings, etc. Really none of that occurred at the training camp except a lot of HR monitor use. Then again, this was at training camp and maybe things are more lax there?
Also, I should mention he never was able to complete the hill reps. The 25xhill reps is very accurate actually and he was only able to do up to 13 of them. He isn’t the Ingebrigstens and also probably went too fast on the threshold work IMO. The “pacing” was also always the same. Shorter, longer, it didn’t matter on the threshold. The difficulty varied only by the amount of time spent in a rep and the compounding nature of the training.
Cape Town or Flagstaff?
Where is the article?
timmy2 wrote:
Where is the article?
Second page.
SprintTriathlon wrote:
Cape Town or Flagstaff?
Neither, it was Dullstroom which is located around northeast South Africa. Cape Town I believe is in the southwest. Relatively remote.
I don't think it makes much of a difference between 3min and 6min reps and 1000m and 2000m reps because their threshold is around 3min/km anyway. Jakob's being 2.44 - 2.51
lactate burns wrote:
I don't think it makes much of a difference between 3min and 6min reps and 1000m and 2000m reps because their threshold is around 3min/km anyway. Jakob's being 2.44 - 2.51
Or 400m.
lactate burns wrote:
I don't think it makes much of a difference between 3min and 6min reps and 1000m and 2000m reps because their threshold is around 3min/km anyway. Jakob's being 2.44 - 2.51
[/quote]
Wow.
2.45 equals a 10 k in 27:30 (without going faster than lactate threshold.)
What about the 5 x 6min in comparison to the 10 x 3min, did they 10 x 3min produce a higher heart rate due to it usually being in the afternoon after already completing a threshold session in the morning / were they both approximately the same heart rate after recovering from the morning session?
FS-14:00, If you dont mind me asking, who is your pal that trained with them.
Former Sub 14:00 wrote:
Also, I should mention he never was able to complete the hill reps. The 25xhill reps is very accurate actually and he was only able to do up to 13 of them. He isn’t the Ingebrigstens and also probably went too fast on the threshold work IMO. The “pacing” was also always the same. Shorter, longer, it didn’t matter on the threshold. The difficulty varied only by the amount of time spent in a rep and the compounding nature of the training.
Thanks for the information. It is really interesting to hear what they are doing, and how it might be different than what is shown on their documentary (I have seen that too, it's great). I wonder if they use the lactate meters more with the in season training.
I agree that it seems odd that they use HR so much, since HR is bound to be different based on heat, humidity, glycogen depletion, time of day, etc. But they have had incredible and consistent success and anyone who does not give merit to their methods would have to be stupid.
HobbyJogging.com wrote:
Former Sub 14:00 wrote:
Also, I should mention he never was able to complete the hill reps. The 25xhill reps is very accurate actually and he was only able to do up to 13 of them. He isn’t the Ingebrigstens and also probably went too fast on the threshold work IMO. The “pacing” was also always the same. Shorter, longer, it didn’t matter on the threshold. The difficulty varied only by the amount of time spent in a rep and the compounding nature of the training.
Thanks for the information. It is really interesting to hear what they are doing, and how it might be different than what is shown on their documentary (I have seen that too, it's great). I wonder if they use the lactate meters more with the in season training.
I agree that it seems odd that they use HR so much, since HR is bound to be different based on heat, humidity, glycogen depletion, time of day, etc. But they have had incredible and consistent success and anyone who does not give merit to their methods would have to be stupid.
It may be different but it still reflects the relative effort for those conditions. That's kind of part of the point of using a HRM.
lactate burns wrote:
What about the 5 x 6min in comparison to the 10 x 3min, did they 10 x 3min produce a higher heart rate due to it usually being in the afternoon after already completing a threshold session in the morning / were they both approximately the same heart rate after recovering from the morning session?
I didn’t ask a question like that but I am sure it did. They did the session with longer reps always in the morning and then the afternoon was shorter reps and less volume over all (like the 3 min ones).
I don’t think it is right of me to reveal his name but he was a high level 1500-steeple guy. He is taking a break from running right now. Hasn’t competed in over a year. He was with them when Jakob was 16 so right before the breakthrough.
Apologies for the double post, but you should really look into the literature and research surrounding their training. Gert wasn't a runner himself and therefore had to dig into a lot of info to develop his training program. He has stated that he is influenced a lot by Stephen Seiler's training.
Look into Stephen Seiler's polarized model of training. Most of the brothers' training does fit that as well. A lot of training at zone 1 ("low" intensity LT based) and some amount of zone 3 (high intensity). What is absent is V02 max work and anything working the aerobic power to a high degree. Very, very inline with their training.