loudoun valley has 11 boys out of 24 in the state 3200 championship

Good for Loudoun Valley qualifying so many boys for the state meet. Using time as the basis for qualification is by far the most fair method. And LV is competing against other schools of similar size, which helps to further even the playing field.

Are there always going to be inequities such as socioeconomic status that can play a role in achieving athletic success? Certainly. But that's the way life is; it's not always completely fair. But using time as the method for choosing qualifiers is the most fair method, in my opinion.

In my state in 2017, at our local district meet, 5 girls ran between 4:50 and 4:58 for 1600. Only 4 girls got to qualify for Regionals. The 5th place girl had the 5th best time in the state, and didn't get to advance to Regionals. Now that's messed-up. Fortunately, due to that specific incident, the next year several at-large spots were added, with the fastest times not in the top 4 places advancing to the next level.

That's a different situation. What you described is the normal system in most states. It's the same system used within a meet that has multipole heats (e.g. top 2 + next 4 times). That still doesn't allow a school to get 11 people to state. It just allows more from a region due to times run in the qualifying meet. Virginia is in the minority in allowing unlimited qualifiers based on times run during the season. Neither is right or wrong.

Yep, I agree that is a bit of a different case. I guess my main idea is that time should definitely play some role in these situations, as it tends to favor the kids who put in the work. I think it's pretty cool that VA allows an unlimited number of kids per team to qualify for indoor state as long as they run fast enough. For a lot of kids, getting to run in a state meet is the pinnacle of their competitive running career.

I will be the first to admit I dislike many things about VHSL but one of the things they got right is allowing time qualifiers for every event in addition to advancing people based on finish at regional. This allows the best of both worlds and ensures that any deserving runner is at the state meet.

Valley didn't do anything wrong they just have a deep team, I wouldn't be shocked if they had more than 11 kids qualified but they just ran other events. As far as people complaining about some of their kids running slow, I would love for you to post about the training you use to make sure that all of your kids always PR 100% of the time at state meets and never run slower than what they ran to qualify.

All of that being said 6 classifications is stupid and really waters down the competition. It should be 3-4 but they also need to fix the regional alignment to. With the demographics and population of the state it really is just a tough situation to make everything balanced.

supernoVA runner wrote:

As far as people complaining about some of their kids running slow, I would love for you to post about the training you use to make sure that all of your kids always PR 100% of the time at state meets and never run slower than what they ran to qualify.

How does posting my training log prove that 10:02 in the 3200 is slow?

Oh wait...it doesn't.

That's just incredible coaching. There were years in which my entire league didn't have more than half a dozen under 10. You are to be saluted for bringing up many, and not just a couple elite athletes. Virginia is absolutely right to have time qualifiers make it so that athletes are not penalized for being on a very strong team and quality is preserved. Six divisions, though, is extreme and could be cut to 3 or 4, while still preserving small school competition.

Coach Joan Hunter wrote:

We had 15 boys run 10:01 or faster indoors this season. They met the 4A state qualifying time which was 10:02 . In Virginia, if you meet the qualifying standard, or place top 3 at regionals, you qualify for state. Should I have left some at home simply because we had so many qualify and it might be 'unfair' to other teams? I'm glad our state allows kids to make it by the stopwatch and not just place at regionals.

How many of those boys transferred from other schools to run there. These track warehouses like loudon,bullis,union catholic are making a mockery ofhs sports

Let's be honest, if you cannot break 10 minutes in the 3200 you should not be contending for a state title, more less winning one. If you feel the need to give someone running 10:12 praise, give them a participation ribbon. Not a state title. How can you have 6 state champions in 1 event....what a joke

Going to a system that Virginia uses has made me conclude that there should be no classes. Pick a number of top qualifiers and just go with it. If using a more traditional system of competing head to head at a qualifying meet, then some number of classes makes sense (6 is too many unless the population is 25 million). Does Virginia use the same system outdoor?

Even after affolder's transfer, Mary Albl of Dyestat wrote before the '18 XC season (I quote, and you can look this up easily to find the quote) "Joan Hunter mentioned a handful of other names knocking on the door and fighting for a spot in the top seven, including several strong transfers, most notably Carlos Shultz from Pennsylvania."

2 of their top 5 at nationals and their relay guys are transfers as well as half of their "depth". It's fake. It's fools gold. Do the coaches know what they are doing with good training? Of course. Do the kids work hard? Of course. But would the school be in the national discussion for XC or track relays if they didn't recruit? Hell no.

Nobody is bashing LV for playing within the rules. But those supporting them need to quit acting like they work so hard and have future hall of fame coaches....they recruited. Without it, they would not have won those relay titles last season and they would not have even been at NXN the past 2 seasons. That's just the reality of it. Nice people though.

We do NOT recruit, and I am sick and tired of reading that we do. Recruiting means contacting athletes at other schools or their parents and encouraging them to go to our school. WE HAVE NEVER DONE THIS. Your false accusations (and those of others) are offensive and slanderous. How can you say we are 'nice people' if this is what you really think of us? 'Nice people' have character.

Several of our 'recruits', as you insist on calling them, moved to our school district without ever speaking to us beforehand. We had NO idea they would be on our team until the summer before they started school. We found out AFTER their child was enrolled in our school. To say this was a surprise to us in every case would be an understatement. I would like to ask you, 'Fools' gold', what you would do under these circumstances if you were us. Refuse to coach them? Tell them to sell their house and move back where they came from? No, you would do your best to coach them.

I am a little amazed that people actually think we recruit kids. We were doing JUST fine developing our homegrown kids- check out our performances over the last 5 years. Check out how much they improved over their years at Valley. Maybe that's why people CHOOSE to come to our school- our track record during our first 3 years was pretty good, with kids who grew up around here. And we have had plenty of homegrown kids who are have been with us from 9th grade on who are currently or have been among our top runners: Jacob Hunter (can't get any more homegrown than him!), Kevin Carlson, Kellen Hasle, Jacob Windle. Last year's grads, Peter Morris, Colton Bogucki, Chase Dawson. I'm probably forgetting some. Oh yeah, that kid Drew Hunter.

I will say it here first: Parents, if you are considering moving to our town JUST because you want your kid on our team, please don't. We do not encourage you to move to our school just for a sport. We are not even sure how much longer we will be coaching, and moving to our school without even talking to us and assuming that we will continue to coach till the day your child graduates is a bit risky. Moving to a new place JUST to be on a sports team is a bad reason to move, so please make sure the move makes sense in every other way, taking into account the entire family, not just your runner.

I also will say that anyone who actually knows me knows I put a ton of time into training my athletes (and not just the 'recruits', and top kids, EVERY kid), so don't you DARE say I don't work hard. I also spend a good bit of time helping coaches who contact me and ask for advice, so it really galls me when other coaches talk trash about us.

VA H.S. Coach wrote:

So, before you destroy the VHSL to see Loudoun Valley race some other NOVA school, I urge you to think about the bigger picture of life. Is the VHSL perfect? Nope. But, it´s not that bad. You probably don´t realize how big of a difference 100 students are between two school systems until you take a look at these smaller school systems. I´ve seen it for years now. While 100 students might not seem like a lot, but it can be the difference between having a #5 on your XC team & your team getting knocked out of the championship season. Small school systems 3A, 2A, 1A struggle to field teams. Often, there´s no JV teams. Thereś, hopefully, enough bodies to put into track events.

Loco resident here. Kid just swam in 4a states. Swimming is likely more "rich" than running is. While I get the need for 6 classes for True team sports like football. I've been musing if it still makes sense for individual sports. Your post convinced me Virginia still needs them.

For non va folks, kids advance to states by either regional place or standards . I can tell you that my kid sat an event so another kid would be assured a top 3 spot and hence get to states. I've no idea how many LV kids made cuts but it wouldn't surprise me if all did. If there is an issue, it'd be for LV at conference and regionals where they'd likely take all the place slots for kids who were they in other regions, could advance by place.

How is Virginia such a horrible distance running state?

Kanye North wrote:

How is Virginia such a horrible distance running state?

Your false accusations are offensive and slanderous.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I've also never heard of only letting two per school compete at the state meet. I don't think that's super common. Anyone who runs under the qualifying time should get to run at the state meet.

That's how it's done outdoors here... only 3 per event per school can run their district meet.

kid from PA wrote:

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I've also never heard of only letting two per school compete at the state meet. I don't think that's super common. Anyone who runs under the qualifying time should get to run at the state meet.

That's how it's done outdoors here... only 3 per event per school can run their district meet.

In Illinois, the reasoning is that there needs to be fair representation across the state. We have 3 divisions. 3A is the chicago suburbs. 2A is the bigger schools in the state. and 1A is schools in the middle of no where. So kids from towns in the middle of farmland and are talented, can still win a title. As opposed to having to compete against neuqua valley and york (both NXN champions and annual powerhouses in 3A).

I do troll on here a lot but the intent of this thread was not what it has turned out to be. I'm sorry coach Hunter. Best of luck at indoor nattys , I see you guys have some entries.

A certain school with an inspiring running tradition has an impressive THREE separate teams in the boys 4xMile at the New Balance Nationals Indoors in March. Let me be among those who salute Joan and Marc Hunter for preparing these boys so well for a chance to compete on the highest level. Note that last year's Loudoun Valley team (The Jungle TC) won the event in a national record.

Now, which of the LetsRun wussies are going to whine about the unfairness in allowing one school to enter three, count 'em, three of the twenty teams in one national championship event?

Event 23 Boys 4x1 Yard Relay 4xMile Relay Championship

Saturday 3/9/2019 - 1:10 PM

Ntl,Meet,Arm: 17:01.82 3/18/2018 Loudoun Valley, Purcellville, VA

C Wells,Jacob Hunter,C Bogucki,Sam Affolder

School

17 The Jungle Tc-Va

1) Wells, Connor 12 2) Carlson, Kevin 11

3) Affolder I, Samuel 12 4) Hunter, Jacob 12

18 The Jungle Tc-Va 'B'

1) Windle, Jacob 12 2) Hasle, Kellen 11

3) Shultz, Carlos 11 4) Arellano, Christian 11

19 The Jungle Tc-Va 'C'

1) Mussmon, Jeremiah 11 2) Ney, Taylor 11

3) Barreto, Mateo 11 4) Venable, Alec 12

Never underestimate the power of the recruiting through the Drew Hunter Effect…and love.

From Wikipedia:

Marc Fisher & Joan Fisher (maiden name: Brown) met in the Fall of 1999 at a small house party in Loudoun County. Their eyes met across the room. It was NOT love at first sight. Marc thought she was nerdy-cute & probably spent too much time in the library in college. Joan thought he looked like a dumb runner-jock, the type of guy who tries to impress girls with Personal Best Times.

Marc approached her as she thumbed through the compact discs at the stereo. He said, “Music’s never been the same since Kurt Cobain died. Let’s go to Applebee’s.” (Applebee’s was the only restaurant in Loudoun County prior to the Housing Market Boom of the early 2000’s.)

On the way to the restaurant, Joan tried to break the uncomfortable silence by telling Marc how her father wanted a boy & named her as closely as he could to the historical figure John Brown. Joan thought this story was a good icebreaker, even though she told it a thousand times. Marc asked, “Who’s John Brown?”

At the restaurant, Marc tried his hand at ordering for both of them. He thought it exerted his masculinity. “We will have some Baby Back Ribs.” Joan told Marc she was a vegetarian & could order for herself. They settled for an Onion Blossom & some margaritas. Joan ordered a second drink.

Marc tried to talk politics. He said he liked George Bush. Joan said she was going to vote for Al Gore. Gore reminded her of her own father. Dry. Intelligent. Wry sense of humor. (How could they know Florida would decide the election only a year later?)

In the car, Marc tried to play a Hootie & the Blowfish CD in his portable CD player with cassette adapter to his car stereo. Joan shook her head disapprovingly. He flipped down his sun-visor of his car. There were 15 CD’s held perfectly in place. He pulled down a Radiohead CD. He chose correctly. It was Joan’s favorite band. She had been reading about their upcoming album Kid A in Rolling Stone magazine for months now.

They drove around the country roads of Loudoun County. They found a dark field with fireflies. It was a cloudless night. They could see the stars. Joan could name all the constellations. Marc confused stars & fireflies. They made love. Marc beat his Personal Collegiate Best in the 800 by :04 seconds. (He probably should have thought of his longer events. Perhaps the 10,000 meters.)

Afterwards, Marc tried to play cool & not return Joan’s phone calls.

Joan got on her Gateway tower computer. (She still had the cow print boxes. She thought they would make good boxes for the next time she moved.) Her dial-up squealed throughout her apartment. Joan logged onto her AOL account. Marc was online too. She opened-up her AOL Instant Messenger. Joan typed a short note. She bit her lip & hit send: Marc, I’m pregnant.