OH BOYY wrote:
Gonna get my popcorn out for this
All the bat5hit crazy letsrunners are gonna swarm this thread LOL
This is great. Cheater Renato setting up his excuses in advance.
OH BOYY wrote:
Gonna get my popcorn out for this
All the bat5hit crazy letsrunners are gonna swarm this thread LOL
This is great. Cheater Renato setting up his excuses in advance.
Keep up, lad: he's out here in Iten training.
Subway Surfers wrote:
Kiwi kitanzi wrote:
Not really. Kiprop's situation is complicated by the fact that the testers(and by extension WADA) violated the protocols. By taking bribes, which they have admitted, the tests they conducted are null and void since they failed the standards set. Since they participated in the viasco, WADA lost the moral and integrity and transparency not only to conduct the test but also to provide results that can be trusted. The logic is, if they could take bribes from Kiprop, there is a possibility, however small, that they could have SPIKED the sample and cause it to test positive. The only thing we all know for sure is that the samples came back positive but we are not sure of what happened from the time the sample was provided until the time the sample were tested. Kiprop claimed that after giving the sample and before it was sealed, he stepped out of the room to get some money for the sample-takers. If that is true, anything could have happened at that point in time before the sample was sealed. What I see is Kiprop getting readmitted back into competitions immediately or serving no more than one year backdated to when the test was done. It is sad but the whole blame goes to WADA.
His test wasn't spiked.
If what this guy is saying is true, then what right do Kenya have to even be competing in international support, if the country is so irretrievably corrupt, that even doping failures can't be trusted and athletes have to legally go unpunished?
m!ndweak wrote:
im confused? el K hates me cause i call out kenyan cheating and the annoying lies....i admitted who i was and where i am from, el K has refused to do the same.
no sorry to correct you but el K and coevett are racists
el K is racists and a bigot against whites from british commonwealth countries, and coevett hates africans who have beaten his time of 3:30.77, and loves WHITES who come from british commonwealth countries... (notice how coevett doesnt really say anything nice about whites from non commonwealth countries???)
Stop forgetting to take your meds, please. Yeah, I forgot Norway was in the 'British Commonwealth' (there's no such thing anymore, btw). Or why I've praised Ryun and Dave Wottle and claimed both would have ran faster if they hadn't had their peaks cut short.
Post after post you're just basically ranting over and over again - 'everybody who ever runs faster than me has cheated! (But especially the Brits!!)'.
I think maybe too you have a crush on Paula and that's why you hate Gary/Rekrunner so much.
This mad-house never ceases to amaze me.
[quote]Renato Canova wrote:
The solution is not easy. Rosa was the first person investing a lot of money for marathon runners in Kenya. When he started (as coach) in 1991 (his first Kenyan champion was Moses Tanui), in Kenya marathon runners didn't exist. He was at the base of the development of the discipline in Kenya, and, because the increased successes in big marathons, when decided to create his own management, was also able to find sponsors (at first Fila, after Nike) investing in his project in massive way.'
You miss out the bit about what Dr Garbiele Rosa switching from cycling where EPO doping was endemic to athletics somehow turning Tanui from an also ran who couldn't even keep up with our Eamonn Martin in the Commonweath games to being World Champion in one year.
Of course a doctor on the tour at that time would have no involvement in doping!
Subway Surfers wrote:
This mad-house never ceases to amaze me.
Do we need rekrunner back posting daily to keep things under control? ?
OH BOYY wrote:
Gonna get my popcorn out for this
All the bat5hit crazy letsrunners are gonna swarm this thread LOL
Oh, yeah, get all the cheaters and run them out.
m!ndweak wrote:
oh and one more thing
what is ol sondre moen up to? i heard i was a piece of sh*t for saying he will never hit 2:05 again....lolz sorry buddy testing came down and you had to get "injured" didnt you
It's not you heard, you are REALLY a piece of sh*t, not for saying Sondre will never hit 2:05 again (amybe yes, maybe not, the future will show), but for insinuating his injury was a false injury in order to escape the antidoping control, and for that reason he was not able to run fast.
Everytime you go with insinuations, you are a piece of sh*t and a lier, withou ethic, moral values and respect.
Renato, when you look at all the incredible times at Dubai, many of which are for runners with credentials not even worth counting for a 2:03/2:04 marathoner (remember that Haile Gebreselassie, a 12:39/26:22 runner, could only run 2:03:59), run those times from out of nowhere, far into their careers, and you see Federico Rosa is their agent, how could you possibly think that they are clean?
zxcvzxcv wrote:
blah blah nonsense
Anyone who really thinks drugs make you superhuman, is probably taking them all the time.
Which means you, and anyone else who keeps accusing the others.
Very simple : I think blood doping doesn't give any advantage, if the athletes live in altitude, train very hard in right way (always in altitude) and have full focus in what they do (of course, if have the proper talent).
In Kenya, sometimes I see something incredible for European or American : athletes (sometimes already 30y old), that after 3-4 local marathon run in 2:20, finally find a training camp where they can finally eat twice per day and train with strong athletes, and in 6 months become able to run under 2:08.
If you see the condition where they normally live, you understand that the big skip of quality is due to the following factors :
1) Food (before very little, now enough for increasing their energies)
2) Recovery (in the training camp they to do training only, not some other heavy work)
3) Following strong athletes in training (in the village they were alone)
4) Quantity of training (for example, from 100 to 220 km per week)
5) Better knowledge of the type of training (at home they only ran)
If you have a life based on pain and fatigue, when you find the above conditions can improve in short time of many minutes.
I don't deny there is somebody taking EPO because supposes can give a benefit : but among thousands runners, who really improve quickly is the athlete that before didn't have training and food, and was alone.
But we're not talking about guys who haven't been getting enough to eat. Getaneh Molla had run 12:59, but he ran 2:03:34 as a debut marathon. He's the most likely to have that ability, but 2:03 best debut ever? Herpassa Negasa, a 25 or 26 year old (birthdate is 1993 with no date) with multiple 2:09/2:10 marathons and years of them, runs 2:03:40? His only other IAAF performance is a 15k in 43:02 from 2016.
MARATHON VIEW GRAPH
PERFORMANCE PLACE DATE
2019 2:03:40 Dubai (UAE) 25 JAN 2019
2018 2:09:14 Hengshui (CHN) 29 SEP 2018
2016 2:10:17 Mumbai (IND) 17 JAN 2016
2015 2:10:17 Lyon (FRA) 04 OCT 2015
2013 2:10:51 Dubai (UAE) 25 JAN 2013 (I notice his agent's name is not showing anymore on the IAAF profile page.)
Asefa Mengstu Negewo, a 13:46/28:54 (at sea level) guy, both pr's being in 2012, seven years ago, runs 1:02s and 1:01 mid until 2017 and runs 59:54/1:00:01 in New Delhi and Copenhagen the last two years, very good times but nowhere near the best, and now he has run 2:04:06 in 2018 and 2:04:24 in 2019, both at Dubai? His best marathons before were 2:19 in 2014, 2:08:41 in 2016, and 2:10:01 in 2017. Mengstu made that huge drop at 30! He's 31 now.
From a previous search, I saw two of these three had Rosa as their agent.
Coevett wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
His test wasn't spiked.
If what this guy is saying is true, then what right do Kenya have to even be competing in international support, if the country is so irretrievably corrupt, that even doping failures can't be trusted and athletes have to legally go unpunished?
What informs my claim that the sample could have been spiked is the fact that no one has come out to deny Kiprop's claim that the testers took a bribe from him. No one is denying the sample didn't come back positive. And no one is claiming that Kiprop did not test positive. That we might never know. So we are not claiming he is innocent. But at the same time in a fair trial, all evidences must be considered and be verifiable. The financial transaction did take place or otherwise the "culprits" would have come out to deny immediately. That was a violation. Since the bribery took place, there is no way to tell if the rest of the claims made by Kiprop are not true especially that there is no evidence to the contrary. If Kiprop was from the US or Britain or any other developed country, the process would have to take the same route especially that doping is a serious thing that can bring someone's career to an abrupt end and return or forfeiture of all the monies won in races. WADA's agents are totally to blame for engaging in activities that bring into question the integrity of the antidoping agency.
I don't know if some of them has Rosa like agent. What I know is the results don't come because of the agent, but because of the coach. The coach follows the athletes on daily basis, the agents meet the athletes once every 2-3 months, and their role in the development of the athletes is completely different.
Try to put in your mind what really happens.
1) Top agents are not interested in marathon runners with 2:10 PB. This performance put an athlete in position 160 in the world in 2018, and if you are Ethiopian or Kenyan, you don't find any organizer paying a ticket for you, because there are other athletes with better times everywhere.
2) Some athlete is able to run in marathon in Asia (China, India, Korea) using fake managers that the most part of times at the end don't give the athletes the money they won. This is a usual situation in Kenya, and I think the same in Ethiopia : the system is that the athletes can't be authorized to compete abroad if are not with a registered manager, but the athletes of that level can find a solution with "nominal invitations by the organizers", where the organizers certify they take care of travel, accommodation and insurance for the athletes in the Country of the race. There is a system built on a connection between the Responsible for the athletes in some marathon (who is the one decides who are the athletes invited, according to the budget given from the organizers) and some person (usually an ex-runner himself) in Kenya or Ethiopia who gives the names of the athletes to the Responsible in order to have the invitation. In this case, the Federation authorize the athletes to compete abroad and to have the Visa. The problem is that the person acting in the Counrty of the athletes is not registered with his Federation, and if cheats the athletes (not giving them their prizes) no action is possible, because officially this person, for the Federation, doesn't exist.
Look at the marathons of Herpassa in the past : very small (like Lyon), very hot (Mumbai) , and of sure he didn't have any real manager.
3) In Ethiopia there are 3 coaches who produce top marathon runners with continuity : they are Gemedu Degefo (working with Gianni Demadonna), Adilo Haji (working with both Makke Hussein and Federico Rosa) and Getaneh Tessema (working with Global of Jos Hermens). They have big groups, and sometimes happens that some athlete with results of medium level can join one of those groups, and finally with the new training can improve dramatically.
4) It seems the most part of posters here continue to forget that the results come because of training. You think can come for doping, because don't have really any clue about the physiological changes that training can produce, when there is a big increase in volume and intensity, mixed in proper way.
5) The obsessed and dishonest mindweak, when speak about 4% of improvement, is totally ridiculous, and ridiculous are all people thinking this possible at top level. I already posted, time ago, numbers that can show how this thesis is completely idiotic, but for who doesn't remember I post again.
This are the "clean records" according to Mindweak (current official record + 4%) :
800m : 1'40"91 + 4% (5"63) = 1'46"54
1500m : 3'26"00 + 4% (8"24) = 3'34"24
5000m : 12'37"35 + 4% (30"29) = 13'07"64
10000m : 26'17"35 + 4% (1'03"10) = 27'20"63
3000st : 7'53"63 + 4% (18"94) = 8'12"57
HM : 58'18" + 4% (2'20") = 1:00:38
Marathon : 2:01:39 + 4% (4'52") = 2:06:31
Now I inform you about how many athletes in the all-time lists were able to run faster than the "hypothetic" clean records
800m : 1072
1500m : 261
5000m : 200
10000m : 143
3000mSC : 116
HM : 377
Marathon : 138
Really is it possible to think that ALL THOSE ATHLETES WERE DOPED ? Because, if only one of them was clean, all the theory of 4% is not valid, and who thinks that with EPO is really possible to have so much advantage is a total idiot.
These are the data of the improvement in the transport of Oxygen with not trained people, but the effect of training is exactly to increase the ability to transport Oxygen (of course, together many other parameters), and seems that who continues to look at big improvements because of EPO refuses to consider the most important factor in the variations of the individual physiological ability : THE ATHLETE'S TRAINING.
Now I'm tired to continue to speak with people not knowing anything about training and its effects, and, in some case, with a behavior full of arrogance, presumption, lack of respect and liers.
Yes, I speak about people that are really pieces of sh*t !
So coaches cannot completely control their athletes. I have been pointing this out here for years.
BTW I just thought of LR as I drove through a small village in the alps named “MORANO”??
Seriously.
Renato Canova wrote:
1) Top agents are not interested in marathon runners with 2:10 PB. This performance put an athlete in position 160 in the world in 2018, and if you are Ethiopian or Kenyan, you don't find any organizer paying a ticket for you, because there are other athletes with better times everywhere.
2) Some athlete is able to run in marathon in Asia (China, India, Korea) using fake managers that the most part of times at the end don't give the athletes the money they won. This is a usual situation in Kenya, and I think the same in Ethiopia : the system is that the athletes can't be authorized to compete abroad if are not with a registered manager, but the athletes of that level can find a solution with "nominal invitations by the organizers", where the organizers certify they take care of travel, accommodation and insurance for the athletes in the Country of the race. There is a system built on a connection between the Responsible for the athletes in some marathon (who is the one decides who are the athletes invited, according to the budget given from the organizers) and some person (usually an ex-runner himself) in Kenya or Ethiopia who gives the names of the athletes to the Responsible in order to have the invitation. In this case, the Federation authorize the athletes to compete abroad and to have the Visa. The problem is that the person acting in the Counrty of the athletes is not registered with his Federation, and if cheats the athletes (not giving them their prizes) no action is possible, because officially this person, for the Federation, doesn't exist.
Look at the marathons of Herpassa in the past : very small (like Lyon), very hot (Mumbai) , and of sure he didn't have any real manager.
If you want examples of Kenyans and Ethiopians competing in obscure marathons/halfs all around the world just check out the results over the last twelve months, including ones that aren't listed here, there's probably hundreds:
http://aims-worldrunning.org/results/archive/2017.html#12Stay calm Renato! Dont get upset and call people dumb things, it will just come back to you with bad karma . )) Big increase in volume and intensity seems to function for a while, but then suddenly the injuries comes as a sudden awakening. Big volume is not always the best way as you think.
Forget epo Renato, though your hypothesis has been thoroughly refuted. You are ignoring microdosing of a cocktail of androgens/roids and pain killers. You yourself stated to me that Africans are most likely to be on steroids. When these nobody runners doing 2:04 in Dubai suddenly take part in Berlin or London or Rotterdam they can't break 2:11, that tells me that they are all of a sudden being tested.
Renato Canova wrote:
I don't know if some of them has Rosa like agent. What I know is the results don't come because of the agent, but because of the coach. The coach follows the athletes on daily basis, the agents meet the athletes once every 2-3 months, and their role in the development of the athletes is completely different.
Try to put in your mind what really happens.
1) Top agents are not interested in marathon runners with 2:10 PB. This performance put an athlete in position 160 in the world in 2018, and if you are Ethiopian or Kenyan, you don't find any organizer paying a ticket for you, because there are other athletes with better times everywhere.
2) Some athlete is able to run in marathon in Asia (China, India, Korea) using fake managers that the most part of times at the end don't give the athletes the money they won. This is a usual situation in Kenya, and I think the same in Ethiopia : the system is that the athletes can't be authorized to compete abroad if are not with a registered manager, but the athletes of that level can find a solution with "nominal invitations by the organizers", where the organizers certify they take care of travel, accommodation and insurance for the athletes in the Country of the race. There is a system built on a connection between the Responsible for the athletes in some marathon (who is the one decides who are the athletes invited, according to the budget given from the organizers) and some person (usually an ex-runner himself) in Kenya or Ethiopia who gives the names of the athletes to the Responsible in order to have the invitation. In this case, the Federation authorize the athletes to compete abroad and to have the Visa. The problem is that the person acting in the Counrty of the athletes is not registered with his Federation, and if cheats the athletes (not giving them their prizes) no action is possible, because officially this person, for the Federation, doesn't exist.
Look at the marathons of Herpassa in the past : very small (like Lyon), very hot (Mumbai) , and of sure he didn't have any real manager.
3) In Ethiopia there are 3 coaches who produce top marathon runners with continuity : they are Gemedu Degefo (working with Gianni Demadonna), Adilo Haji (working with both Makke Hussein and Federico Rosa) and Getaneh Tessema (working with Global of Jos Hermens). They have big groups, and sometimes happens that some athlete with results of medium level can join one of those groups, and finally with the new training can improve dramatically.
4) It seems the most part of posters here continue to forget that the results come because of training. You think can come for doping, because don't have really any clue about the physiological changes that training can produce, when there is a big increase in volume and intensity, mixed in proper way.
5) The obsessed and dishonest mindweak, when speak about 4% of improvement, is totally ridiculous, and ridiculous are all people thinking this possible at top level. I already posted, time ago, numbers that can show how this thesis is completely idiotic, but for who doesn't remember I post again.
This are the "clean records" according to Mindweak (current official record + 4%) :
800m : 1'40"91 + 4% (5"63) = 1'46"54
1500m : 3'26"00 + 4% (8"24) = 3'34"24
5000m : 12'37"35 + 4% (30"29) = 13'07"64
10000m : 26'17"35 + 4% (1'03"10) = 27'20"63
3000st : 7'53"63 + 4% (18"94) = 8'12"57
HM : 58'18" + 4% (2'20") = 1:00:38
Marathon : 2:01:39 + 4% (4'52") = 2:06:31
Now I inform you about how many athletes in the all-time lists were able to run faster than the "hypothetic" clean records
800m : 1072
1500m : 261
5000m : 200
10000m : 143
3000mSC : 116
HM : 377
Marathon : 138
Really is it possible to think that ALL THOSE ATHLETES WERE DOPED ? Because, if only one of them was clean, all the theory of 4% is not valid, and who thinks that with EPO is really possible to have so much advantage is a total idiot.
These are the data of the improvement in the transport of Oxygen with not trained people, but the effect of training is exactly to increase the ability to transport Oxygen (of course, together many other parameters), and seems that who continues to look at big improvements because of EPO refuses to consider the most important factor in the variations of the individual physiological ability : THE ATHLETE'S TRAINING.
Now I'm tired to continue to speak with people not knowing anything about training and its effects, and, in some case, with a behavior full of arrogance, presumption, lack of respect and liers.
Yes, I speak about people that are really pieces of sh*t !
" Top agents are not interested in marathon runners with 2:10 PB . " That`s the Gold label mark for marathon and a lot of Kenya and Ethiopia runners with sub 2:10 will get a ticket to many big marathons with such a PB. And with the right coach such a runner can suddenly run 2:04-2:06 with much less volume than you believe.