Lucy Kabuu banned for two years - best excuses ever?

Canova's strategy is to convince athletes he works with that any kind of support "even legal" will not help them. Since athletes who he has coached keep getting busted, it appears that he has been remarkably unsuccessful in convincing anybody of this, except possibly some gullible readers on a message board.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Even if It was EPO you would say it doesn't work.

Codeine can give a false positive for morphine. She said she didn't take anything though.

One thing you don't grasp is dumb or misinformed people will take all sorts of useless drugs thinking they give improvement. The intent is their to cheat

American sprinting success is built on steroids and Kenyan success built on EPO. How ever many are busted you will never admit it.

rojo wrote:

As for Kabuu, no one has pointed out she tested positive for morphine. Can someone tell me why you would take morphine and how it would help you.

I'm much more likely to believe she's innocent since she tested positive for morphine rather than known performance enhancers like steroids or EPO.

How does one “accidentally “ use morphine? Lol

Codeine was appearently not the reason here. Desserts with poppy seeds (don't know if they eat that in Italy, at least in Germany, Austria, Czech Republic they do. But if she really would eat that before a marathon?

I think it's quite likely, that she didn't intend to take something performance enhancing. But I don't buy, that she doesn't know what it caused the positive now (afterwards) - you realize that she had to take the drug in the last two days prior to the race (maybe three but then it had to be a massive dose)?

And on the other hand, if she took it on race day, that's definitely doping to me. With pain that really required morphine she couldn't race and from taking it for minor pain to taking it to make the race effort easier it's not even a small step.

Yes, this story doesn’t seem made up at all. (/Sarcasm)

My dear friend, we speak about athletes who I coached for several years such as Rita Jeptoo (from 1998 till 2007) who doped in 2014, after having a baby, being coached by the husband, divorcing, changing coach and management, and changing place of training (from Iten to Kapsabet).

Or about athletes I coached for short time (from September 2011 til April 2012) like Lucy Kabuu, who never was in the training camp, and only came for training.

Instead, what we do with the athletes ALWAYS in the training camp and under control, is to explain WHY blood manipulation doesn't work IF THERE IS HARD AND PROPER TRAINING, and all the athletes under control understand and, more important, ACT IN THE WAY WE TEACH THEM.

So, don't do easy (but stupid) irony on this argument, because it's not possible to involve all the Kenyan athletes in a correct mentality, if we are not with them with continuity.

I never had some athlete (whom I followed with continuity) taking supplements or somithing illegal, except maltodextrines during the long run for marathon runners. And the last generation of new athletes, who in one year moved from 3'37" in 1500m to 58'42" in HM (Eric Kiptanui), or from 8'34" in steeple to 59'06" (twice) in HM defeating in Copenhagen the new WR holder Abraham Kiptum (Daniel Kipchumba), or from 14'25" on 6th May 2017 till running 59'19" and pacing Eliud in Berlin till 26.5 km, clearly can demonstrate how it's possible running at the top with training only, if there is basic talent, discipline, continuity in training, and full focus in this activity.

And, if there is somebody like you, who believes blood doping can give big advantage, we don't accept in the camp, also if can be very strong. We don't want that bad ideas and stupid (and cheater) athletes can create confusion in a camp where the educational values are at the base of the performances.

Coevett wrote:

Shouldn't she be charged with damaging the integrity of the sport or such?

Tooljo wrote:

Wouldn't it make sense that if she truly didn't know how the morphine got into her system, she may posit many possibilities?

If she really didn't do it....and really had no idea....then very logical that she would throw out many reasons, b/c she had no idea.

She's been blindsided by bogus drug allegations, the same as has happened to others.

I have no idea what you do or don't tell your athletes in your training camp. I do know that your former athletes keep testing positive. There have been a lot of them. It is a fact. So if you are telling them that drugs don't work, it obviously isn't sinking in.

Renato Canova wrote:

Instead, what we do with the athletes ALWAYS in the training camp and under control, is to explain WHY blood manipulation doesn't work IF THERE IS HARD AND PROPER TRAINING, and all the athletes under control understand and, more important, ACT IN THE WAY WE TEACH THEM.

Renato Canova wrote:

Morphine can't help any performance, since there are multiple collateral effects, that affect any kind of activity.

I don't know why it's in the list of not allowed medicines : I think is in the list because very dangerous for the health, and one of the goal of antidoping is also to protect the health of the athletes.

It seems very clear that her doping was due to some mistake in some medicine, and not for the idea to improve her performance. I never heard of somebody using morphine for running faster.... but for running slower !

I don't find correct she can considered a cheater,

I agree with all this.

while is correct she has to be banned because using something against the rules, not because had some advantage, but because was not professional trying to understand the components of the pharma.

I disagree. It is not right to ban someone for having no advantage, nor for ignorance.

In the case of taking something dangerous, a reprimand along with educational requirement should suffice.

A pharmacist may need to chime in but IV morphine like I mentioned before is part of a standard protocol given to pt's having an MI not only for pain but more importantly for its vasodilation effects as it supplies more oxygen to the heart. A pharmacist would know if the oral form would have the same effect of dilating the vessels. For this person not to be so loopy from the drug (and be able to race) I would assume a very high tolerance.

A lot ? Tell me the names.... You are informed about something I don't know !

Here we go again with the "doping does not work on Kenyan's" argument.

First, just from looking at your list the slowest marathon of her career was the Moscow World Championship. News Flash: the World Championship does not pay appearance fees and ALWAYS does drug testing, but not for 44th place. So she likely tanked the race to save herself for Chicago where there was a better payday and less chance of being busted.

Secondly, the number of world class times listed above from 2012 to 2015 is a pretty typical peak for a Marathoner. Usually after 5 or so great Marathons a runner has beaten his/her body pretty badly and begins to have injuries. Certainly there are exceptions, but 3-4 years and 5-7 great marathons is a common range. If the above list is correct she did not race for 3 years probably due to injury, and was on the comeback and doing the doping (if not all along) to get back to running well. Without drugs, she would probably have run 2:35+ in those last 2 races.

Please come up with a new argument that is not so transparently self serving.

fan of dental hygiene wrote:

I've always appreciated Dieter Baumann's explanation of his adverse finding.

That, and the explanation that frequent sex with multiple partners obviously affected T and the like.

Great to see strong athletes holding their ground, fighting off the haters!

:-)

LOL. That's funny. But not what he said. If he was African you'd be defending him, but since he's not, he gets the NPC treatment from an NPC.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

I was in a FB conversation with her (along with Kenyans proclaiming her innocence because she is Kenyan)

She was banned for morphine. I pointed out excess codeine tablets could cause a false positive.

To be fair I don't think she is that intelligent as I don't think she got that this was a reasonable excuse. Another Kenyan actually said she had taken a pain killer and should just have got a TUES but she just started rambling on about God

I'm not sure morphine would actually enhance performance other than perhaps you could push through the pain?

It does not seem that straightforward but the authorities and half this board bought the BS excuse about meat contamination with your 800m runner.

If she was American she'd have walked or got a reduction like Gay

Nope. A (white) American would be butchered in the press, and so would a white Brit. You're an NPC for sure. No wonder the British have fallen so far, allowing grooming gangs and the like. If you're really a Brit at all.

You really don't have any idea of what are speaking about.

How many athletes ran very bad in Moscow WCh ? Lucy didn't want to go, was not ready after London, but was forced to run by the Federation.

In that race the weather was very hot and humid, and 26 athletes didn't finish. Among them, the Olympic Champion Tiki Gelana, the other Ethiopian Meselech Melkamu (who was still number 3 after 35 km) and Feyse Tadese, the Olympic Champion 2004 (Noguchi), the other Kenyan Valentine Kipketer.

Lucy, not really prepared for that kind of weather, was in the leading group till HM, after started to slow down, but at 30 km was still number 8 in 1:46:55. She wanted to drop out, but at the end finished the race walking, with the following splits :

30 km : 1:46:55

35 km : 2:08:25 (5 km in 21:30)

40 km : 2:33:04 (5 km in 24:39)

Final : 2:44:06 (2.195m in 11:02)

Thinking that this was due to the fact there was the doping control is something completely idiotic, since EVERY TIME in the previous marathons she was controlled (or you think that in London and Chicago there was not any control ?), and was controlled in Kenya too, because the Major marathons allowed to compete only athletes having not less than 3 OOC tests in the last 12 months before the race (the Majors paid the cost).

And another thing : don't try to invent the reasons because she didn't run for 3 years. In the middle there was a baby, a divorce, and also some injury, but this was not the main problem.

And, in any case, don't forget she was in the Olympic final already in 2004, so can be true that her body started to have some problem.

But I didn't see anybody solving a body problem (injuries) taking morphine... This is like trying to change the company of fuel for a car that has the shock absorber broken, hoping to solve in this way the problem.

Even though there could be some sort of physiological benefit...it's difficult to to know if this person was on morphine or another opiate in hopes of a performance enhancement. All in all it's pretty scary and sad but is seen all too often in the general population....it may have little to do with the sport and more with addiction that's been uncovered because of the drug testing...hopefully there will be some resources and support out there for her.

Zee wrote:

A pharmacist may need to chime in but IV morphine like I mentioned before is part of a standard protocol given to pt's having an MI not only for pain but more importantly for its vasodilation effects as it supplies more oxygen to the heart. A pharmacist would know if the oral form would have the same effect of dilating the vessels. For this person not to be so loopy from the drug (and be able to race) I would assume a very high tolerance.

From her urinary concentration she took either a small dose before the race or a bigger dose in the days leading up to the race. High tolerance can be ruled out because then she would have taken a bigger dose on race day or she would race worse if she took less on race day than what she is used to. But with a small (right) dose no tolerance is needed to race well.

Pharmacist here: In the past it was used by default, till one study said mortality is higher when morphine is used. Now we know that this study had it's flaws and morphine has (besides reducing pain - which also reduces O2 need of the body) positive effects (lower heart rate/blood pressure) and negative side effects. My last knowledge (no expert in the field!) is that morphine is now only used when it is needed for pain relief (although procedures may vary in different countries or hospitals).

Oral administration would provide the same effects with some of them (histamine release, vasodilatation) less pronounced.

What's up with the american opioid epidemia you always hear in the media - no letsrunners with relevant experiences?

Renato Canova wrote:

A lot ? Tell me the names.... You are informed about something I don't know !

Start with the three Chinese runners

Lucy Kabuu

Rita Jeptoo

Asbel Kiprop

There are many more.

Blah Blah Blah

She should be banned for one of the two following reasons:

1) She knowingly used morphine.

2) She is too stupid to prevent someone from administering morphine to her.