ex-runner wrote:
Maybe you want to reread that 'logic' degree. Sure it wasn't Logistics at the University of Wolverhampton?
I suspect it was the University of Woolamaloo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPFClJGqjBQex-runner wrote:
Maybe you want to reread that 'logic' degree. Sure it wasn't Logistics at the University of Wolverhampton?
I suspect it was the University of Woolamaloo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPFClJGqjBQRenato Canova wrote:
I can't be sure that he was doped, too many strange things happened with him. However, if in the lab they found EPO, he doped, because it's not possible to assume EPO with some other medicine, but it has to be injected (while, for example, many steroids are in medicines produced in Asia and specifically India, without any information for who buys the medicine).
.
I'll keep this really simple for you, Kiprop was a sacrificial lamb to give off the impression that AD Kenya is testing their elites strenuously.
Subway Surfers wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
I can't be sure that he was doped, too many strange things happened with him. However, if in the lab they found EPO, he doped, because it's not possible to assume EPO with some other medicine, but it has to be injected (while, for example, many steroids are in medicines produced in Asia and specifically India, without any information for who buys the medicine).
.
I'll keep this really simple for you, Kiprop was a sacrificial lamb to give off the impression that AD Kenya is testing their elites strenuously.
I'll keep this really simple for you, Renato knows a lot about the subject, whereas you are a fart in the wind when it comes to it.
Coevett wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
It makes no sense to me that one can state that Jakob is a clean, 17 year old Norwegian boy from the only family in Norway that takes running seriously, who has run 3:31.1 for 1500m, predict that in a few years he will run 3:28, but believe it impossible for any African to do so.
Despite Ethiopia and Kenya having vastly larger serious participation rates in this sport.
The population of Norway is 5 million.
The population of Ethiopia is f*cking 100 million and that's considering they probably can't do a great head count there.
Simple maths. Of course there will be some Jakobs over there. And some Filips. And some Coe's.
Fair enough. So why aren't there any Chinese running sub 3:35 out of a population of over 1 billion? This surely proves that every runner in history who has ran fater than 3:35 has doped, and that the Chinese, for some reason, are clean?
Or what if China started dominating the 1500m and suddenly were producing sub 3:28 guys. El K and all the other doping apologists would be screaming ped accusations at them. But by your logic, it would be absurd to believe that a country of 1 billion couldn't produce sub 3:28 guys if Kenyans and Moroccans, and Brits (hypothetically on modern tracks) have shown they can.
Mate, I'm just going by the fact that there is a clear and evident horrendous doping culture in Kenya, and all Kenyan elite times are at least a little suspect now to anyone but a handful of hardcore nutjobs here on this running forum.
'the only family in Norway that take's running seriously'
That just shows what kind of 'knowledge' of running you really possess.
Not being disrespectful, but did you actually pass your maths GCSE? I studied logic at one of the top 10 universities in the world.
You don't know anything about logic.
Could have fooled me. LOL.
Big Man On Campus wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Fair enough. So why aren't there any Chinese running sub 3:35 out of a population of over 1 billion? This surely proves that every runner in history who has ran fater than 3:35 has doped, and that the Chinese, for some reason, are clean?
Or what if China started dominating the 1500m and suddenly were producing sub 3:28 guys. El K and all the other doping apologists would be screaming ped accusations at them. But by your logic, it would be absurd to believe that a country of 1 billion couldn't produce sub 3:28 guys if Kenyans and Moroccans, and Brits (hypothetically on modern tracks) have shown they can.
Mate, I'm just going by the fact that there is a clear and evident horrendous doping culture in Kenya, and all Kenyan elite times are at least a little suspect now to anyone but a handful of hardcore nutjobs here on this running forum.
That just shows what kind of 'knowledge' of running you really possess.
Not being disrespectful, but did you actually pass your maths GCSE? I studied logic at one of the top 10 universities in the world.
You don't know anything about logic.
Could have fooled me. LOL.
LOL
Renato Canova wrote:
|]
Why, instead to look at the SUPPOSED doping of other people, you don't ask yourself WHY you are no more able to produce runners of the same level ?
[]
It's your mentality, and the mentality of people like you, that produces the increase in the number of athletes looking at doping. But the reality is that the training of the athletes of today (including Kenyans and Ethiopians) is very much more SOFT than the training of 30 and 20 years ago.
[]
Really, I'm tired of all the bullshits about doping that I continue to read in LR, while very few people are interested in technical discussion, in order to better understand what athletics is.
Raddison wrote:
[quote]Hill Run wrote:
[quote]Coevett wrote:
Using Coevett's logic about 20% of the players in the English Premier League should be Chinese, ie about 110 players.
In fact there have been just five, all time, and none in the past ten years:
Dong Fangzhuo – Manchester United – 2006–07
Li Tie – Everton – 2002–04
Li Weifeng – Everton – 2002–03
Sun Jihai – Manchester City – 2002–08
Zheng Zhi – Charlton Athletic – 2006–07
And, apart from Charlton Athletic, we know why the big clubs had a Chinese player on their books.
ex-runner wrote:
It makes no sense to me that one can state that Jakob is a clean, 17 year old Norwegian boy from the only family in Norway that takes running seriously, who has run 3:31.1 for 1500m, predict that in a few years he will run 3:28, but believe it impossible for any African to do so.
Despite Ethiopia and Kenya having vastly larger serious participation rates in this sport.
The population of Norway is 5 million.
The population of Ethiopia is f*cking 100 million and that's considering they probably can't do a great head count there.
Simple maths. Of course there will be some Jakobs over there. And some Filips. And some Coe's.
100%
Dopey idiot wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
I'll keep this really simple for you, Kiprop was a sacrificial lamb to give off the impression that AD Kenya is testing their elites strenuously.
I'll keep this really simple for you, Renato knows a lot about the subject, whereas you are a fart in the wind when it comes to it.
?? Just one of the more tedious armchair Kenya ‘experts’ here, on top of Kenyan culture and attitudes due to a voracious consumption of the Kenyan gutter press, yet probably doesn’t even own a passport, let alone been. Ask Subway and Coevett what they don’t pretend to know as much about Ethiopia.
Coevett said: Fair enough. So why aren't there any Chinese running sub 3:35 out of a population of over 1 billion?
so far as it goes, you do at least have your facts straight. in the whole of China (population 1.379 billion people) so far this year just two men have run under 3:50 for 1500m. Lifei Sun ran 3:49.37 when finishing 2nd in the national championships at Zhaoqing, and Yuxi Luo has done it three times with a best of 3:45.68. I suspect there are High Schools in the US with stronger 1500m squads than that.
as for the Chinese and athletics. China didn't send any teams to the Olympics until 1932 when they sent exactly one man who competed in the 100m and 200m, going out in the first round of both running 11.5 / 23.4. in 1936 they sent a team of 7 athletes, including a 1500m runner, two hurdlers and a team in the 4 x 100m relay, all of whom were eliminated in the first round. in 1948 they sent 3 men who competed in five events. anyone who ran a heat was eliminated in the first round, and the guy who got into two straight finals failed to finish either one of them.
after that, they didn't send any athletes at all to the summer olympics until 1984. at those games they competed in ten events (on the men's side). of the three track events they competed the longest was the 200m and they maintained their 100% record of being eliminated in the first round.
the fact is that China have never taken a medal at a men's middle distance event at either the Olympic Games or World Championships. in fact, China have only twice had a male athlete in the final of a track event at the Olympics, and, as mentioned, he failed to finish both of them. the high point of Chinese Olympic participation in track athletics came at Rio de Janeiro in 2016 when they had two men in the 2nd round of the 100m, and one of them qualified for the semi finals.
AFAIK, at 1500m their top-5 all-time list looks like this:
Dou Zhaobo (CHN) 3:36.49 1 Changsha 24-Oct-2003
Mingyou Song (CHN) 3:36.54 1 Shanghai 18-Oct-1997
Weize Yang (CHN) 3:36.97 2 Changsha 24-Oct-2003
Gao Shuai (CHN) 3:37.41 2 Shanghai 18-Oct-1997
Zhaobo Dou (CHN) 3:43.27 Jinan 12-May-2001
I won't pretend to know what all this says about the place that middle distance running has in Chinese culture, but the facts say it is not a new thing, it has always been this way, which means it has nothing to do with the question of whether or not they are doping. expecting a huge population to produce outliers in a sport they do not take seriously or invest in or compete at internationally, is just schoolboy level self-deception.
This surely proves that every runner in history who has ran faster than 3:35 has doped, and that the Chinese, for some reason, are clean?
later in your post you claim to have studied logic, which may or may not be true, but you are certainly not applying it here. the simple fact that just two Chinese men have run under 3:50 does not of itself prove that anyone running faster must have doped. nor does it prove that, "the Chinese are clean." does the name Ma Junren mean anything to you? I suspect the Chinese are clean, but that probably has more to do with limited funds, limited availability, and lack of incentive to do so.
just one example of why your "logic" is nothing but an illusion is that the opposite of this appears to be happening in Russia. Russia is, supposedly, the home of systematic state-sponsored doping where athletes get PED's for breakfast and the secret police doctor urine samples by passing them through a hole in the floor where scientists replace them with pre-frozen "cleans." but this year, only one man in Russia (population 144 milion) has run under 3:40 for 1500m, and there are only 26 performances under 3:45. if they are all doped to the eyeballs, why aren't they running faster?
do PED's not work on Russians?
cheers.
Cottonshirt wrote:
This surely proves that every runner in history who has ran faster than 3:35 has doped, and that the Chinese, for some reason, are clean?
later in your post you claim to have studied logic, which may or may not be true, but you are certainly not applying it here. the simple fact that just two Chinese men have run under 3:50 does not of itself prove that anyone running faster must have doped. nor does it prove that, "the Chinese are clean." does the name Ma Junren mean anything to you? I suspect the Chinese are clean, but that probably has more to do with limited funds, limited availability, and lack of incentive to do so.
just one example of why your "logic" is nothing but an illusion is that the opposite of this appears to be happening in Russia. Russia is, supposedly, the home of systematic state-sponsored doping where athletes get PED's for breakfast and the secret police doctor urine samples by passing them through a hole in the floor where scientists replace them with pre-frozen "cleans." but this year, only one man in Russia (population 144 milion) has run under 3:40 for 1500m, and there are only 26 performances under 3:45. if they are all doped to the eyeballs, why aren't they running faster?
do PED's not work on Russians?
cheers.
I don't argue "EPO doesn't work". You have repeatedly admitted you have no idea what I am arguing, so I would ask that you stop trying to restate it in terms you do understand.
Coevett wrote:
... instead of arguing alongside Rekrunner that EPO doesn't work ...
Cottonshirt wrote:
so far as it goes, you do at least have your facts straight. in the whole of China (population 1.379 billion people) so far this year just two men have run under 3:50 for 1500m. Lifei Sun ran 3:49.37 when finishing 2nd in the national championships at Zhaoqing, and Yuxi Luo has done it three times with a best of 3:45.68. I suspect there are High Schools in the US with stronger 1500m squads than that.
as for the Chinese and athletics. China didn't send any teams to the Olympics until 1932 when they sent exactly one man who competed in the 100m and 200m, going out in the first round of both running 11.5 / 23.4. in 1936 they sent a team of 7 athletes, including a 1500m runner, two hurdlers and a team in the 4 x 100m relay, all of whom were eliminated in the first round. in 1948 they sent 3 men who competed in five events. anyone who ran a heat was eliminated in the first round, and the guy who got into two straight finals failed to finish either one of them.
after that, they didn't send any athletes at all to the summer olympics until 1984. at those games they competed in ten events (on the men's side). of the three track events they competed the longest was the 200m and they maintained their 100% record of being eliminated in the first round.
the fact is that China have never taken a medal at a men's middle distance event at either the Olympic Games or World Championships. in fact, China have only twice had a male athlete in the final of a track event at the Olympics, and, as mentioned, he failed to finish both of them. the high point of Chinese Olympic participation in track athletics came at Rio de Janeiro in 2016 when they had two men in the 2nd round of the 100m, and one of them qualified for the semi finals.
AFAIK, at 1500m their top-5 all-time list looks like this:
Dou Zhaobo (CHN) 3:36.49 1 Changsha 24-Oct-2003
Mingyou Song (CHN) 3:36.54 1 Shanghai 18-Oct-1997
Weize Yang (CHN) 3:36.97 2 Changsha 24-Oct-2003
Gao Shuai (CHN) 3:37.41 2 Shanghai 18-Oct-1997
Zhaobo Dou (CHN) 3:43.27 Jinan 12-May-2001
I won't pretend to know what all this says about the place that middle distance running has in Chinese culture, but the facts say it is not a new thing, it has always been this way, which means it has nothing to do with the question of whether or not they are doping. expecting a huge population to produce outliers in a sport they do not take seriously or invest in or compete at internationally, is just schoolboy level self-deception.
This surely proves that every runner in history who has ran faster than 3:35 has doped, and that the Chinese, for some reason, are clean?
later in your post you claim to have studied logic, which may or may not be true, but you are certainly not applying it here. the simple fact that just two Chinese men have run under 3:50 does not of itself prove that anyone running faster must have doped. nor does it prove that, "the Chinese are clean." does the name Ma Junren mean anything to you? I suspect the Chinese are clean, but that probably has more to do with limited funds, limited availability, and lack of incentive to do so.
just one example of why your "logic" is nothing but an illusion is that the opposite of this appears to be happening in Russia. Russia is, supposedly, the home of systematic state-sponsored doping where athletes get PED's for breakfast and the secret police doctor urine samples by passing them through a hole in the floor where scientists replace them with pre-frozen "cleans." but this year, only one man in Russia (population 144 milion) has run under 3:40 for 1500m, and there are only 26 performances under 3:45. if they are all doped to the eyeballs, why aren't they running faster?
do PED's not work on Russians?
cheers.
The Chinese fueled their women back in the 90s...which is weird (only the women but no men?). Looking back at this makes the sport laughable seeing these full-throttle performances - four (4) of the top 5 all-time fastest 1500 were set by the Chinese women in 90s:
1. 3:50.07 Genzebe Dibaba ETH 08.02.91 1 Monaco
2. 3:50.46 Qu Yunxia CHN 25.12.72 1 Beijing 11.09.1993
3. 3:50.98 Jiang Bo CHN 13.03.77 1 Shanghai 18.10.1997
4. 3:51.34 Lang Yinglai CHN 22.08.79 2 Shanghai 18.10.1997
5. 3:51.92 Wang Junxia CHN 09.01.73 2 Beijing 11.09.1993
What's up with the men? They couldn't find any to force into their program? ?
https://deadspin.com/chinese-runners-revealed-state-sponsored-doping-in-1995-1757222603The jump in performance women have when given anabolics is much greater than in men.
rekrunner wrote:
I don't argue "EPO doesn't work". You have repeatedly admitted you have no idea what I am arguing, so I would ask that you stop trying to restate it in terms you do understand.
0/10.
You're a snotty one!
Should I say "please"? He should know by now what he said regarding me was incorrect, as I've surely corrected him at least a half dozen times. I'm just trying to break the loop.
What's the "not snotty" way to say he doesn't need to drag me with false words into what looked like a one on one conversation with Renato.
Who is this guy? wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
I don't argue "EPO doesn't work". You have repeatedly admitted you have no idea what I am arguing, so I would ask that you stop trying to restate it in terms you do understand.
0/10.
You're a snotty one!
Go to bed Coevett.
rekrunner wrote:
Should I say "please"? He should know by now what he said regarding me was incorrect, as I've surely corrected him at least a half dozen times. I'm just trying to break the loop.
What's the "not snotty" way to say he doesn't need to drag me with false words into what looked like a one on one conversation with Renato.
Weird....I thought you liked Coevett? (unless you post as "ex-runner" as your secondary handle then I can see the hatred you have for each other).
Late in CZ wrote:
Who is this guy? wrote:
0/10.
You're a snotty one!
Go to bed Coevett.
Why don't you rekrunner. You're the one that monitors these doping threads 24/7. ?
El Keniano wrote:
?? Ask Subway and Coevett what they don’t pretend to know as much about Ethiopia.
What's this? I have long said that I think Ethiopia is dirtier than Kenya. It is just Herman's operations there are far more sophisticated than the sloppy mess Rosa is running, regulars on here can attest to that. I have also stated that Morocco's success looks entirely the result of epo. Russia; dirty. Ukraine; dirty. Rupp and Jager are suspicious to say the least and many others in that crowd. The problem here is Kenyans are the ones being caught at the moment and they are all elites, both sexes and they cover events from 800m to the marathon.