Good call or bad call? Highly ranked Ohio HS 4x800m team Hudson DQed at districts (state qualifying meet). Video here

DG,

The guy in the outside lane was drifting to try to get away from the guy on the inside lane pushing him out who then tried to get in his way. Sorry, but that is easily a DQ in Ohio and in most states for high school competition. You are flat wrong here.

We had a kid dq'ed last year for what I understand was the same thing but I didn't see it. No contact but drifted over lanes not even realizing he was doing it. He won and the other kid got 2nd and they both would have advanced but their coach protested.

While it is nice to win, the bigger goal is to advance and these kids would have been better off just cruising in for 2nd.

No DQ wrote:

The kid in white takes three steps on the line between 2/3 at the finish, but this was after the kid in red drifted out into lane 3. Neither kid is a genius here, they both should be focused on qualifying, but they are kids being competitive. Let 'em race.

No contact no foul. This is worse than the Salazar/Hasay/Grunewald debacle.

Sorry, but that is not the rule. You can, and this Hudson kid did, impede without contact.

Justified DQ.

Seyta wrote:

In addition, this is not a deterrent at all. Very few people actually go about INTENTIONALLY interfering with competitors. Nearly all cases of interference are unintentional, save for a select few exceptions, which are incredibly easy to spot (ex. Gebrselassie getting punched in the head at World Juniors). DQing somebody for interference will do absolutely nothing to actually prevent interference in the future.

Absolutely not true. I have had this exact conversation with athletes I have coached about impeding another runner. I have heard many officials warn runners and call over coaches at in-season meets that what they just saw would be a DQ down the line in post-season meets. I have heard coaches talk about past DQs among themselves and advise their athletes on what they can't do with past DQs as examples.

Raysism wrote:

Seyta wrote:

Very few people actually go about INTENTIONALLY interfering with competitors.

Yet here's a video of one.

Look, if you're not going to DQ that kid, you're not DQ'ing anyone. That's a textbook disqualification. He went out of his way to interfere with another runner.

If I don’t DQ a one lane, no contact drift, I wouldn't DQ anyone?

What a dumb thing to say.

Live to run another day..... wrote:

We had a kid dq'ed last year for what I understand was the same thing but I didn't see it. No contact but drifted over lanes not even realizing he was doing it. He won and the other kid got 2nd and they both would have advanced but their coach protested.

While it is nice to win, the bigger goal is to advance and these kids would have been better off just cruising in for 2nd.

The kid on your team realized he was doing it. It's an attempt to block the runner from passing and making them run further. It's perhaps an instinct to do that, but it is not allowed. There does not have to be contact.

I never fault a kid for trying to win a District championship.

This is 100% a DQ. I remember running a 3200 (yes NY has dumb events) in high school and winning the race by a lot (also small school) and as I crossed the finish line I had slid over into lane 2. There was no one around me, but the official still pulled me aside and gave me a warning.

In college I saw a girl fade into lane 2/3 and did not impede anyone to win but she was still disqualified. The rules are written in a way that unless you are passing someone, you are required to maintain your line/lane.

I don't think that looked like a DQ, yes the kid was drifting out a little bit but it wasn't as drastic as some of you are trying to make it out to be.

If anything he drifted a little bit then the kid in the red was past and cut back in on him and the move at the end was the kid in the white having one last ditch effort to get around him.

It didn't look like he even really made any contact when I first watched it I just thought the kid in the red ran out of gas and dove for the line.

Flagpole wrote:

Live to run another day..... wrote:

We had a kid dq'ed last year for what I understand was the same thing but I didn't see it. No contact but drifted over lanes not even realizing he was doing it. He won and the other kid got 2nd and they both would have advanced but their coach protested.

While it is nice to win, the bigger goal is to advance and these kids would have been better off just cruising in for 2nd.

The kid on your team realized he was doing it. It's an attempt to block the runner from passing and making them run further. It's perhaps an instinct to do that, but it is not allowed. There does not have to be contact.

I never fault a kid for trying to win a District championship.

IMHO, there should not have been a DQ. I watched it closely several times. I could see the drift but not any outright hacking the other runner with his arms or anything that would garner a DQ in NJ.

That said, I disagree with Flagpole. When both of those dudes saw they were free and clear of the field they should have just cruised it in for a friendly 1-2 finish (order doesn't matter). I would fault a kid for going all out and risking a DQ for a meaningless win. For top teams (as I assume Hudson is in Ohio?) all that matters is getting to States and performing well at that meet.

Just to be clear, while Hudson had a good 4x800 team, they were unlikely to actually contend for the state title.

Wadsworth and Olentangy Orange are probably the two favorites. Hudson would have likely been in a mix with another half dozen schools to contend for places 3-6.

It may very well take 7:38 to win this year.

If there had been several teams in contention coming down the final straight, the team on the outside may have been pushed all the way off the track. DQ.

CoachO wrote:

Just to be clear, while Hudson had a good 4x800 team, they were unlikely to actually contend for the state title.

Wadsworth and Olentangy Orange are probably the two favorites. Hudson would have likely been in a mix with another half dozen schools to contend for places 3-6.

It may very well take 7:38 to win this year.

Hudson had no chance to win the state title in the 4x800. You are correct that Wadsworth and Olentangy Orange are the two favorites. Orange won the indoor state meet in an indoor state record in March, beating Wadsworth. Wadsworth is very good though and definitely has a shot...will be a fun race to watch.

Realistic placing for Hudson would have been 6-8.

Clear justified DQ based on Ohio High School rules.

Let's see what the rule book says.

http://ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Sports/Track-Field/TFmanual.pdf

"The rules as printed in the NFHS Edition 2018 Track and Field Rules Book will apply in all competition involving OHSAA member schools. Exceptions are those noted below or by interpretation in future bulletins."

There are no relevant exceptions noted for our issue, so unless someone else can provide evidence to the contrary, Ohio defers to the NFHS rule book and has no special rule regarding interference. So what does the NFHS rule book say?

Apparently that information must be purchased, which I just did. You're all welcome.

NFHS 2018 Track and Field, XC Rule Book:

Rule 5 Running Events

Section 9 Infractions for all races

Art. 1 ... Interference is any action by a competitor that unfairly changes the course or natural running rhythm of a competitor during a race. This may include bumping, tripping or running across the competitor's path. PENALTY: Disqualification from event.

So it all hinges on whether or not you see the runner in white "unfairly changing the course or natural running rhythm" of the runner in red. That's a really close call, and I see how someone might interpret it that way, but I still say that the runner in red fell on his own and had he not done so, there would not have been a DQ.

If it's my call and I have the luxury of viewing this video, I say no DQ. I also contend that if this strict interpretation of the rule is applied to pack races it will result in the disqualification of several runners from each race. Some reasonable discretion needs to be applied.

DiscoGary wrote:

So it all hinges on whether or not you see the runner in white "unfairly changing the course or natural running rhythm" of the runner in red. That's a really close call, and I see how someone might interpret it that way, but I still say that the runner in red fell on his own and had he not done so, there would not have been a DQ.

It's not about the fall, and I don't see why anyone is mentioning the fall. Watch the video and look at where the runner in red is for the entire homestretch. His feet are on the lane 2/3 line the entire way...until the runner in white goes to make the final pass with about 20m to go. It's hard to tell if the guy in white actually makes contact when he goes by (I would be surprised if he didn't), but look at where he is when he takes his last few steps. The guy in white is right on the lane line. He forced the guy in red off of his line to the finish. Textbook DQ.

Well, again, this was in Ohio, not NJ. You don't need to hack someone with your arms to get DQd in Ohio, and I doubt that's the rule in NJ either. Can't impede another runner, and this Hudson runner clearly did that. Justified DQ.

Easy to say after the DQ that those teams should have just jogged it in for a friendly finish. Maybe they could go out for pizza and a movie later too. It's still a competition. They don't want to just give up on a District championship.

Hudson was the 6th ranked 4x800 team in Ohio prior to that race. The top 2 teams in Ohio are far superior, and Hudson would have been likely challenging for places 6-8 on State meet day.

top of the stretch 3 or 4 strides suddenly and that's the key here wide forcing other runner out, then straight for both runners until 3 or 4 strides out and a sudden deviation out again by more than 1/2 lane. Obvious DQ. In my day as a competitive runner at a high level, I would have elbowed the ...... out of him the moment he tried to take away my lane. I would make sure he only did this once and learn the lesson, hence there would have been no reason to DQ him. Just a lesson on how to hold your lane.

DiscoGary wrote:

I don't see any contact at all. No DQ.

same here? looks like the typical dive at the end of the race people try... kid in white was already ahead and had it won

Samuel DeChamplain wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

I don't see any contact at all. No DQ.

same here? looks like the typical dive at the end of the race people try... kid in white was already ahead and had it won

There is definitely contact. About 25-35 meters out from the line.

The kid in red is running the entire last straightaway on the line between lane 2 and 3. Nearly every step is on the line. The kid in white is running towards the middle to inside of lane 2. As the kid in white moves back up and is passing the kid in red, he is moving out towards lane 3. About 25-35 meters from the line he makes contact with the kid in red. This forces the kid in red out the middle of lane 3 while the kid in white is now on the lane line between 2 and 3. The kid in white finishes the race on the lane line between 2 and 3 which is where the kid in red had been running the whole home stretch. The kid in red finishes the race in the middle to outside of lane 3. He did not "dive" for the finish. He stumbles and falls. It appears that there was more contact in the last 5-10 meters that causes the stumble and fall. This would not have happened if the kid in white had not moved out towards lane 3.

looks clean to me, but i'm not an official... I'd say that's just racing, you're gonna get bumped, it happens.