Hayduke wrote:
central_park_laps wrote:
Same as the 800m thread...
59-62 = World’s best
63-65 = World Class
65-68 = Elite
1:09-1:14 = Good
1:15-1:19 = Average
1:20-1:24 = Beginner
1:25+ = Hack
worlds best 58-59
world class 59-60
elite 60-64
local elite 65-68
local 69-74
above average75-80
Agreed!
Elite = 1:04:23 Men/ 1:10:59 Women Sub Elite = 1:12:53 M/1:20:22 W Pretty Good = 1:331:35 M/1:40:54 W
If your local race timing provides age-graded scores, it's pretty enlightening. Out here in the hinterlands, the biggest and most competitive HM in the state, with comped entries for elites and prize money, only gets around 10 people with AG scores above 80, about half from fast women above 55, topping out around 85.
Out here, it's more like this (all times for men age 28):
Under 1:30: you have some talent, and you trained a bit. You know some of the faster runners, and some of them recognize you.
Under 1:25: good talent, and you trained consistently for this race. Sometimes you get a podium place.
Under 1:20: former college runner/high school standout. Top 3 at local races.
Under 1:15: former college standout. You win almost any local race you enter.
Under 1:10: former college star. We never see you because there's no competition for you locally.
Under 1:05: We've never seen you at a race in this state. You would clean up even against the C-list Kenyans who usually take the top spots at the state's biggest race.
For guys in their mid 40s, it's more like:
Under 1:30: Pretty good. Your return to running is more than a midlife crisis. Top 3 in your age group at least.
Under 1:25: Age group winner by a lot, occasionally sniffing top 3 overall. The young guys will talk to you.
Under 1:20: Your age group competition is from the next state over. In a good race, you ruin the days of former college runners who have slacked off.
Under 1:15: You are Smoove. You're freakishly fast for an old guy. You're in the mix for top master at national-level races.
Under 1:10: You're almost always top master at any race in the US, unless Bernard Lagat shows up.
Under 1:05: You are Bernard Lagat.
view from nowhere wrote:
If your local race timing provides age-graded scores, it's pretty enlightening. Out here in the hinterlands, the biggest and most competitive HM in the state, with comped entries for elites and prize money, only gets around 10 people with AG scores above 80, about half from fast women above 55, topping out around 85.
Out here, it's more like this (all times for men age 28):
Under 1:30: you have some talent, and you trained a bit. You know some of the faster runners, and some of them recognize you.
Under 1:25: good talent, and you trained consistently for this race. Sometimes you get a podium place.
Under 1:20: former college runner/high school standout. Top 3 at local races.
Under 1:15: former college standout. You win almost any local race you enter.
Under 1:10: former college star. We never see you because there's no competition for you locally.
Under 1:05: We've never seen you at a race in this state. You would clean up even against the C-list Kenyans who usually take the top spots at the state's biggest race.
For guys in their mid 40s, it's more like:
Under 1:30: Pretty good. Your return to running is more than a midlife crisis. Top 3 in your age group at least.
Under 1:25: Age group winner by a lot, occasionally sniffing top 3 overall. The young guys will talk to you.
Under 1:20: Your age group competition is from the next state over. In a good race, you ruin the days of former college runners who have slacked off.
Under 1:15: You are Smoove. You're freakishly fast for an old guy. You're in the mix for top master at national-level races.
Under 1:10: You're almost always top master at any race in the US, unless Bernard Lagat shows up.
Under 1:05: You are Bernard Lagat.
Well done! *applause*
Hayduke wrote:
central_park_laps wrote:
Same as the 800m thread...
59-62 = World’s best
63-65 = World Class
65-68 = Elite
1:09-1:14 = Good
1:15-1:19 = Average
1:20-1:24 = Beginner
1:25+ = Hack
worlds best 58-59
world class 59-60
elite 60-64
local elite 65-68
local 69-74
above average75-80
+1
Half WHAT? wrote:
Half marathon is BS. Run a marathon or stay home.
When is a half of something in sport ever important? I won half of the world series...I won half of the NCAA tournament. I won half of the olympics,,,, I won half of World War 2, I won half of the rounds against Mohammed Ali.
Half is a code word for loser. A marathon is 26.2 miles. Anything less is embarrassing.
Wait, but people say I married a half decent girl.
I won a half a million dollars in the lottery on a scratcher.
I'll give you half and half for the same price.
The recipe calls for a half a cup of sugar.
I like that I am only one category below Smoove for masters runners although he is way faster than me and one AG older than me.
To LR there are two categories. 1. Sub 60 - elite ( unless you are Rupp) 2. Hack - why even bother.
Half WHAT? wrote:
Half marathon is BS. Run a marathon or stay home.
When is a half of something in sport ever important? I won half of the world series...I won half of the NCAA tournament. I won half of the olympics,,,, I won half of World War 2, I won half of the rounds against Mohammed Ali.
Half is a code word for loser. A marathon is 26.2 miles. Anything less is embarrassing.
You're cool
If you can beat Kip Litton’s times (2:49 at Missoula) you are elite!!!
You guys are so out of touch with reality on these assumed time.
When the average marathon finisher is 4:30 and people struggle with breaking 2 on a half marathon and to say 1:30 is a hack is ridiculous.
98% of runners in a half would be lucky to break a 7 minute pace in a 5k and you say that below that is a hack...
Saywhat2 wrote:
You guys are so out of touch with reality on these assumed time.
When the average marathon finisher is 4:30 and people struggle with breaking 2 on a half marathon and to say 1:30 is a hack is ridiculous.
98% of runners in a half would be lucky to break a 7 minute pace in a 5k and you say that below that is a hack...
They try to fit this into a linear model and it doesn't work. In most big half marathons, a sub 1:25 (~4/km) will put you in the top 1.5%. In any general sense being in the top 1.5% of anything makes it exceptional. To get to sub 1:14 (3:30/km) is very exceptional, and sub 1:04 (3:00/km) is absolutely elite.
I suspect sub 1:45 (5/km) probably still gets you in the top 10% or thereabouts. This trend would only get more acute if you "made everyone line up and run" in one massive race.
The disconnect here is a simple one: you're looking at a different sample of people than the OP. While you look at the entire field of large races and use relative position as a basis for determining what "average" is for the sample of people, the OP is really drilling down into a smaller subset of people - competitive runners - not every participant.
As usual, the disconnect isn't about right or wrong, it's about perspective.
200m is half of 400m, I guess 200m sprinters aren't real athletes, please tell Usain Bolt next time you see him at your local park run.
Actually, the half marathon is better than a whole. While you’re still out there on the course, I’m done with my run and enjoying several 🍻 beers in the beer tent. Too bad if there’s none left for you when you finish. 😎
The Had Matter wrote:
Numbers aside, the general principle of all such rankings is this:
Faster than me = cheater
Me = elite
Slower than me = amateur, novice, hack.
Sounds about right.
Hayduke wrote:
worlds best 58-59
world class 59-60
elite 60-64
local elite 65-68
local 69-74
above average75-80
This one is the first good one, except you've got to add in 57 to the front end since last year.
a 61/62 half marathoner PR isn't getting you flown around the world to run races, but it'll get you into all the good races on your continent. 60 and under will get you in about any race in the world, and under 59 makes you a world contender. Running under 64 gets you in almost any regional race. 65-68 gets you in your local/state races in the seeded portion of the race.