unpopular opinion: Barkley Marathons is gimmicky and cheesy

Totally agree. It seems like, if you don't like Barkley, you are pegged as an ultra-hater....and if you like ultras, you have to love Barkley, follow it on Twitter, and lionize all the starters.

BTW, nice job on saying "Marathons" because that's the first thing Barkley Twitter-watchers will call out.

I think Barkley is a (music) band geek subculture...it used to be the obscure band nobody heard of, and now it's the phase of "I've followed this band since the beginning. But there's less honest comparison to the quality 'stuff' that's otherwise out there. And, even now it has jumped the shark where people start targeting and talking about the "Fun Run" (3 laps) instead.

I do love ultra 'thons and love the classic races and courses like Hardrock, Western States, Leadville, UTMB, etc., for all of their history and faults, as being aesthetic courses with a competitive field and history. I put the gimmick of Barkley, and to a lesser extend the expensive exclusivity of Badwater and growing 200-mile and beyond events into which sleep/(anti-sleep aid) strategy factors in predominantly, together in their own group. Fine if people want to be excited about it, train for it, whatever -- just don't act like we have to worship it or treat it beyond or even the same as other ultra challenges.

And yes, the nitpickiness of Blake Wood getting screwed out of a finish tarnishes it for me as well. Shows where the fans and organizers are aligned on the extremities of the Autism spectrum than anything about endurance excellence.

Did anyone see the Ginger Runner video about the Canadian hobo? I haven't been able to stomach any of his stuff since seeing that saccharine bromance installment.

I can't feel my pace wrote:

I lost interest in the whole thing back in 2001, when they arbitrarily DQed Blake Wood.

It's not even a hiking event, it's a sadomasochistic group event. The cigarette at the start makes that particularly clear. There is a chief sadist and a bunch of willing masochists

Right on. I saw the Netflix doc on this and there is a certain arrogance that the (incredibly unathletic) RDs possess. They seem to get their rocks off on people "failing" (the parameters of the event are of course unreasonable, and designed by the aforementioned unathletic sadists).

Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me.

ginger hobo wrote:

Did anyone see the Ginger Runner video about the Canadian hobo?

You paid for that crap?

Bad Wigins wrote:

This skill is useful only if you want to be an outlaw or a guerrilla fighter hiding out in the hills.

There are people who don't want this?

Huh. Weird.

Any running event where you would stop to take a crap is not a running event. No, not Deek or Paula-level crapping, but crapping because you'd think that after a few days you'd have to drop a whopper.

These ultras are just like the cross-country bike races. If you have to sleep, or crap, or whatever that's not actually running/riding, or have to figure out novel ways to stay AWAKE, it's not a race. It's stupidity.

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

Part of Barkley's allure is in the small field, the cheap "entry" fee and the secrecy in how to even enter. I really don't think the RD gives a crap about making his event bigger. He wants people there who want to push their limits, mentally and physically, not someone checking it off a bucket list and only doing it to brag to their friends.

Having 500 starters is a logistical nightmare on any course even close to Barkley. You'd get a bunch of road runners trying to prove their worth and they would either get lost in the woods or get hurt falling over a rock/tree. They'd expect a medal, a shirt, water every 2 miles, timing clocks, chip timing, etc.

Exactly. There's something nice about events that aren't just 10,000 people running round Disney World so that a company can make massive profits off them but not actually give a crap about them as individuals. And meanwhile the individuals go home and tell everybody they're special because they just 'ran' a marathon in 6hrs.

Threadus Resurectus!

Just watched the documentary and it's hard to decide whether Laz is a sadist or not. He reminds me of Drill Instructors, some of whom are genuinely hopeful that recruits/candidates will fail and/or get injured. Are they hopeful for those injuries because they seem themselves as tasked with weeding out the weak, or are they just sadistically enjoying inflicting suffering? It's awfully hard to tell a lot of the time.

That's Laz and maybe a couple of his crew of oddballs. The gallows humor? The smoking? The 'taps' when a runner fails? It really is hard to tell if the event inspires or mocks.

On the other hand, there are moments in the film when he seems genuinely proud of the runners and pleased to have provided something different for those up to the challenge. It made for some good Corona watching on the treadmill.

You can call it "gimmicky or cheesy," but that's what makes it unique and interesting. If it was just another 100 mile race, no one would care about it.

One "gimmick" that I really like is the uncertain start time. It's a very unique thing that creates a very unique psychological environment. I really like how it creates uncertainty and prevents the "runners" from being able to feel like they are in control by preventing them from making firm pre-race plans (for sleep in particular).

The biggest problem I have with the race is not the gimmicks or the cheese but rather the fact that when the race has such a limited number of entries available, the same little group or club of people keep getting invited back year after year after year. When over a thousand people apply for just 40 spots, I don't know how anyone can excuse letting the same people take up so many of those limited spots every year. It's an elitist club with a secret application process and a non-transparent selection process that basically amounts to who can first suck up to one of the current club members to get in on the application process and then who can suck Laz's ego's dick the hardest to get selected.

Ultimately the race does seem to boil down to a sleep deprivation challenge. It's about how well you can handle sleep deprivation and whether you can find a book hidden under a rock in the middle of the woods in the middle of the night in the middle of a rainstorm while really sleep deprived. Let's just all acknowledge it for what it is and stop trying to compare apples and oranges.

There's no good reason to be fighting over whether this race is "harder" or more impressive than some traditional running race. Ultra-running is much better when it's about challenging yourself and enjoying the scenery rather than people squabbling over who completed a harder or more impressive race. No one should give a f**k. If you want to say you're better than someone, race them head-to-head. Every other form of dick-measuring in ultra-running is just talk and hot air.

From watching the movie, it's the lack of actual trail passage that makes this thing the most challenging, and frankly sadistic. Cranking through random brush, thickets, brambles, that's the soul-sucking aspect that would destroy most. People rightly choose to travel on trails when given the option, or at least through the least harmful 'thick' they can when traveling on foot. The Barkley sadists force the contestants to wade through 100 miles of prickers as far as I can tell.

Think about this: do any of us believe for a second that when these guys where bombing around the TN hills in their youth, that they were choosing to force their way through brambles? No way in hell. Look at the legs of the contestants after one loop. The more I think about this race, it really seems to be a big Screw You to running, the contestants, the whole concept of athletic competition. It really is what a sadistic Marine Drill Sergeant would come up with.

The fact that Laz mocks the entrants and chain smokes the entire time clearly shows that he is really saying Eff You to the whole enterprise.

"Hey Laz, do you think there are people stupid enough to put up with your sh!t?"

"I bet there are. The world is full of idiots!"

"Wow, people showed up. Let's make it worse next year! Eff them!"

Thus were the origins of the Barkley as far as I can discern.