Damn Rojo is s8 ruined by King Cheserek lol. What a beast the King is I hope to see him running for the U.S. in the next Olympics he should have been last one. :( Still can't believe that the NCAA G.OA.T never won the Bowerman. LONG LIVE THE KING
Damn Rojo is s8 ruined by King Cheserek lol. What a beast the King is I hope to see him running for the U.S. in the next Olympics he should have been last one. :( Still can't believe that the NCAA G.OA.T never won the Bowerman. LONG LIVE THE KING
Rojo, do you think most people run better in a competition mile or time trial mile?
You mention distance and tactics. But many of the “common” 3:32 1500s you bring up are basically time trials too. And in the end the great ones are pushing each other the last 200-400. Ches did it solo. As for running extra distance, athletes should rightly be penalized for foolish positioning and pace.
rojo wrote:
I'm glad that he broke 3:50 but as I said in another thread perspective is needed here. I'll re-post what I wrote in that thread.
tzzy03 wrote:
Hope the running world is ready for someone of this talent..
Let's don't get carried away here. I'm happy to see Cheserek is doing well. The only thing that bothers me is is 100% don't believe he should hold any US HS records due to questions about his age. Well not even questions. By his own admission he was at least 19 in February of his senior year. If you are 19, you should be in college.
But now he's listed as being 24. Do you think the World hasn't seen a sub-3:50 miler at 24? You think that's unprecedented. Really?
It's only making big waves because it's indoors. In my mind (and possibly Nick Willis's), indoors is probably almost just as fast as outdoors for the mile. There is zero wind. Temp is 70.
Anyways, 3:50 is equivalent to 3:32.9 for 1500. Last year, there were 12 men that broke 3:33 for 1500 and 5 of them were younger than Cheserek who was born in 1994 - Timothy Cheriyot (3:29.10, born in 1995), Ronald Kwemoi\ (3:30.89 born in 1995) , Charles Simotwo (3:32.59, born in 1995) , Yomif Kejelcha (3:32.04, born in 97), Justus Soget (3:32.97, born in 99).
Kejelcha's listed age is 3.5 years younger than Ches.
When Caleb Ndiku was Cheserek's age, he had already run 3:29.50 in the 1500, 12:59 in the 5000 and won World Championship silver in the 5000.
So yes, I think the world is ready for someone of his talent. It's running on the DL circuit every single year but a Western bias prevents most people from appreciating it.
Don't misunderstand me. Cheserek is a beast and it's great that Americans are paying attention to a Kenyan talent and recognizing it as being something special - it's just sad that they have to go to school over her (and enjoy all the advantages of the Western world) to be properly appreciated.
Rojo
Who hurt you?
Flotrack/Miles_it sux
First off, congrats to the man. A sub 3:50 is a herculean effort, indoors or outdoors. That must have been as mentally tough as it was physically. Secondly, it really puts into perspective how great Eamon Coghlan's sub 3:50 (3:49.83 wasn't it?) on the 11-lap to the mile wood track in the early 1980's. All the conversion questions/speculations make me wonder what Coghlan's effort was worth back in the day if it had been a 200m banked mondo oval? 3:47's maybe? Wow.
Just walked in the door from the race. I live and work in Boston, so I was able to bike there after work and made it around 6:30.
BU was charging $10 for single day admissions. So tomorrow when I want to watch any of the other men's races I'll need to pay another 10$... This is my biggest gripe. They also did not open up the lower tier to anyone but athletes, so I wasn't able to get super close to the track. Seating is fairly limited and if BU continues to develop as a venue for elite runners, then they will likely need to expand their facility.
The place was pretty packed and unlike in 2013/2014 when Rupp ran, they didn't pop open the doors to cool down the facility. Obviously Ches is not as soft as Rupp/Alberto. Most everyone in the place, including parents, were pretty aware of what was happening and everyone was going wild from the second Ches started doing strides on the track.
I will say, this race very much had a time trial vibe with only 3 athletes. This felt less true in Rupp's 3:50.9, when Jenkins, and others rode on the back of the train to run 3:57-8. Funny to think Jenkins is probably a much better miler than Rupp now.
The race:
Kidder was out a little slow, around 31s for 209m, and I imagine they would've wanted to be out fast, if anything. Kidder was able to pick it up a little bit and keep them on pace through the next few laps, but you could see Ches move up close behind Piazza whenever the pace was lagging. When Kidder stepped off, it was obvious that Piazza was already starting to feel the pace but he was pretty game to pick it up for Ches, who was running up Piazza's heels by then. Around a 1000m, Piazza started to drift wide and give Ches the inside lane. To his credit, Piazza kicked it in well to stay in front of Ches just through the 1200m mark and from there it seemed less a question of could Ches close it out, and more of a question of just how fast he could go. In fact, down the back stretch I wondered if Ches knew he had 2 laps to go as he was moving so well. Basically from this point on, it was so loud you could not hear a thing as the crowd could tell this was a special performance. In a lot of ways, it was more exciting than when Rupp was out hard and clearly struggling the last few laps of his 3:50.9, because you could just tell Ches had so much in the tank.
My 2 cents are that Ches could break the WR in a more evenly paced race, or with more competition. This track is also not as fast as the armory, despite what many will tell you.
Rojo, that's your reaction???
2nd fastest all-time indoor mile and your reaction is to say he shouldn't hold high school records?? He's out of college. Zero relevance.
2nd fastest all-time and you're first reaction is to say "well, a lot of guys did this outdoors last year." The point about the speed of indoor tracks is relevant, but history and performances alone show that Ches at 3:49 is a better performance than simply breaking 3:33 outdoors.
How many people outdoors all alone at the end? Some did, but your posts often offer nothing but back-handed compliments accompanied by negative Nancy criticism. As an example in the chase for Sub-2, Kipchoge did better than most anyone realistically predicted and your first reaction was to toot your horn for accurately predicting he wouldn't break 2.
Admittedly some reactions to this performance, and others, will be over the top. However, I'd suggest being a fan for once and just enjoying a great performance instead of starting a post about the 2nd fastest indoor mile ever with a reference to eligibility for high school records. It's your bias that prevents enjoyment of this run more so than the western bias that maybe inflates it some.
Awesome, thanks for the summary. Kinda lame that it was a time trial without nobody else in it. Not like they could have stayed with Ches, but would have been nice to seem some other guys pulled along for fast times.
BU price scam wrote:
Just walked in the door from the race. I live and work in Boston, so I was able to bike there after work and made it around 6:30.
BU was charging $10 for single day admissions. So tomorrow when I want to watch any of the other men's races I'll need to pay another 10$... This is my biggest gripe. They also did not open up the lower tier to anyone but athletes, so I wasn't able to get super close to the track. Seating is fairly limited and if BU continues to develop as a venue for elite runners, then they will likely need to expand their facility.
The place was pretty packed and unlike in 2013/2014 when Rupp ran, they didn't pop open the doors to cool down the facility. Obviously Ches is not as soft as Rupp/Alberto. Most everyone in the place, including parents, were pretty aware of what was happening and everyone was going wild from the second Ches started doing strides on the track.
I will say, this race very much had a time trial vibe with only 3 athletes. This felt less true in Rupp's 3:50.9, when Jenkins, and others rode on the back of the train to run 3:57-8. Funny to think Jenkins is probably a much better miler than Rupp now.
The race:
Kidder was out a little slow, around 31s for 209m, and I imagine they would've wanted to be out fast, if anything. Kidder was able to pick it up a little bit and keep them on pace through the next few laps, but you could see Ches move up close behind Piazza whenever the pace was lagging. When Kidder stepped off, it was obvious that Piazza was already starting to feel the pace but he was pretty game to pick it up for Ches, who was running up Piazza's heels by then. Around a 1000m, Piazza started to drift wide and give Ches the inside lane. To his credit, Piazza kicked it in well to stay in front of Ches just through the 1200m mark and from there it seemed less a question of could Ches close it out, and more of a question of just how fast he could go. In fact, down the back stretch I wondered if Ches knew he had 2 laps to go as he was moving so well. Basically from this point on, it was so loud you could not hear a thing as the crowd could tell this was a special performance. In a lot of ways, it was more exciting than when Rupp was out hard and clearly struggling the last few laps of his 3:50.9, because you could just tell Ches had so much in the tank.
My 2 cents are that Ches could break the WR in a more evenly paced race, or with more competition. This track is also not as fast as the armory, despite what many will tell you.
Seriously rojo, you have a problem. Go talk to someone to sort out your validation issues.
rojo wrote:
I'm glad that he broke 3:50 but as I said in another thread perspective is needed here. I'll re-post what I wrote in that thread.
tzzy03 wrote:
Hope the running world is ready for someone of this talent..
Let's don't get carried away here. I'm happy to see Cheserek is doing well. The only thing that bothers me is is 100% don't believe he should hold any US HS records due to questions about his age. Well not even questions. By his own admission he was at least 19 in February of his senior year. If you are 19, you should be in college.
But now he's listed as being 24. Do you think the World hasn't seen a sub-3:50 miler at 24? You think that's unprecedented. Really?
It's only making big waves because it's indoors. In my mind (and possibly Nick Willis's), indoors is probably almost just as fast as outdoors for the mile. There is zero wind. Temp is 70.
Anyways, 3:50 is equivalent to 3:32.9 for 1500. Last year, there were 12 men that broke 3:33 for 1500 and 5 of them were younger than Cheserek who was born in 1994 - Timothy Cheriyot (3:29.10, born in 1995), Ronald Kwemoi\ (3:30.89 born in 1995) , Charles Simotwo (3:32.59, born in 1995) , Yomif Kejelcha (3:32.04, born in 97), Justus Soget (3:32.97, born in 99).
Kejelcha's listed age is 3.5 years younger than Ches.
When Caleb Ndiku was Cheserek's age, he had already run 3:29.50 in the 1500, 12:59 in the 5000 and won World Championship silver in the 5000.
So yes, I think the world is ready for someone of his talent. It's running on the DL circuit every single year but a Western bias prevents most people from appreciating it.
Don't misunderstand me. Cheserek is a beast and it's great that Americans are paying attention to a Kenyan talent and recognizing it as being something special - it's just sad that they have to go to school over her (and enjoy all the advantages of the Western world) to be properly appreciated.
Rojo
He ran 3:49.44 indoors. Age, ethnicity, whatever doesn't matter. It. Doesn't. Matter.
It's amazing. Stop writing and appreciate a huge accomplishment in track and field
Cool. He's super impressive. I hope he runs 12:52 this year.
I've read many stupid posts on this site, but this one far surpasses any of them. What they hell is your point? The guy runs 3:49 and you spend your time trying to make the case that it really isn't that big of a deal. To add insult to injury, you a co-founder of the site. It figures.
WOW!!! Didn't think he'd break 3:50 - that's incredible. Congrats to the King.
Excited to see what he'll [be able to] do tomorrow.
T&F Nut wrote:
I've read many stupid posts on this site, but this one far surpasses any of them. What they hell is your point? The guy runs 3:49 and you spend your time trying to make the case that it really isn't that big of a deal. To add insult to injury, you a co-founder of the site. It figures.
Anyone remember when Rojo literally celebrated and gloated when Kipchoge didn’t Break2 despite how incredible his feat was? Seems to be a theme of crapping all over amazing performances instead of appreciating them.
Exactly. I really don't understand all the dissing by Rojo. A pretty good guy ran 3:49.44 tonight- a damn fine run I'd say.
There's nothing more lame than people worrying about any "pre-adult" age group records (which is all high school is). The very fact that not everyone matures at the same rate makes high school performances meaningless. Maybe under 20 is ok, since pretty much anyone is fully mature by then. Otherwise, quit whining about high school ages.
To agree with everyone else, this was a MIND-BOGGLINGLY GOOD performance. This is the equivalent of running 3:32.... SOLO!!! Hats off the King Chez, this was an absolutely monster effort regardless of age, ethnicity or any other factor... Chez is the real deal. I can't wait to see what he does after this. People say he isn't a miler.... but I think this performance speaks for itself.
That is the weakness of the American collegiate system. In the rest of the world, the demarcation line is 20 -- the difference between competing as a junior and a senior. At 20 you HAVE to be ready to compete with the best in the world. American collegians are cloistered until they are 22, competing against inferior competition. This is good for late bloomers who need nurturing, but for those who don't it means they are 2 years behind the rest of the world when they emerge, really 3 because post-collegians usually have to adjust to a whole new location/coach/training/lifestyle while for the rest of the world, the best athletes probably have had the same coach since they were teenagers -- no adjustment necessary. Even people like Murphy/Brazier who turn pro early lose time because of post-collegiate adjustments.
rojo wrote:
YEAH BUDDY wrote:
What's the matter, rojo? Grumpy at all the publicity FloTrack got?
No. I like being contrarian. Plus I understand the sport.
I didn't pay to watch. I was happy to wait for the results to pop up on the screen. Reminds me of Rupp talk a few years ago.
Ches ran ~1.5s faster then Rupp, with worse pacing I believe.
rojo wrote:
I'm glad that he broke 3:50 but as I said in another thread perspective is needed here. I'll re-post what I wrote in that thread.
tzzy03 wrote:
Hope the running world is ready for someone of this talent..
Let's don't get carried away here. I'm happy to see Cheserek is doing well. The only thing that bothers me is is 100% don't believe he should hold any US HS records due to questions about his age. Well not even questions. By his own admission he was at least 19 in February of his senior year. If you are 19, you should be in college.
But now he's listed as being 24. Do you think the World hasn't seen a sub-3:50 miler at 24? You think that's unprecedented. Really?
It's only making big waves because it's indoors. In my mind (and possibly Nick Willis's), indoors is probably almost just as fast as outdoors for the mile. There is zero wind. Temp is 70.
Anyways, 3:50 is equivalent to 3:32.9 for 1500. Last year, there were 12 men that broke 3:33 for 1500 and 5 of them were younger than Cheserek who was born in 1994 - Timothy Cheriyot (3:29.10, born in 1995), Ronald Kwemoi\ (3:30.89 born in 1995) , Charles Simotwo (3:32.59, born in 1995) , Yomif Kejelcha (3:32.04, born in 97), Justus Soget (3:32.97, born in 99).
Kejelcha's listed age is 3.5 years younger than Ches.
When Caleb Ndiku was Cheserek's age, he had already run 3:29.50 in the 1500, 12:59 in the 5000 and won World Championship silver in the 5000.
So yes, I think the world is ready for someone of his talent. It's running on the DL circuit every single year but a Western bias prevents most people from appreciating it.
Don't misunderstand me. Cheserek is a beast and it's great that Americans are paying attention to a Kenyan talent and recognizing it as being something special - it's just sad that they have to go to school over her (and enjoy all the advantages of the Western world) to be properly appreciated.
Rojo
Rojo.
I love letsrun. it's far and away the best running website. you have an amazing site with so much knowledge and hard work about running, but you are so biased.
just hold that part of yourself back.
-your defense of paula radcliffe (she looks like an obviously doper if you remove yourself)
-your hatred of NOP (no evidence, pushing the limits is what every elite runner is doing)
-and now your irrelevant age argument about cheserek. who cares!?
just write down what you're thinking, reread it, and delete it. you'll come off as a better person and garner more respect. try it at least
ches just ran 3:49.44 indoors. second best indoors ever. sure, maybe it's weak or maybe it's only a 3:32 1500m equivalent but only el g ever ran faster indoors. if it was easy centro and ndiku and all those kenyans you mentioned would have done it. i don't care if Ches was 23 in high school. i don't care if he's 13 or 33 now. he just ran 3:49.44 indoors. he has only improved since his other-wordly high school career and could become the best runner of all time based on his patience and improvement. try to see the wonder in that.. age doesn't matter right now, 3:49.44 does.
just slow it down and let the emotions settle before you write anything. it'll be to your advantage, i promise.
westsouthrunner wrote:
rojo wrote:
I'm glad that he broke 3:50 but as I said in another thread perspective is needed here. I'll re-post what I wrote in that thread.
Let's don't get carried away here. I'm happy to see Cheserek is doing well. The only thing that bothers me is is 100% don't believe he should hold any US HS records due to questions about his age. Well not even questions. By his own admission he was at least 19 in February of his senior year. If you are 19, you should be in college.
But now he's listed as being 24. Do you think the World hasn't seen a sub-3:50 miler at 24? You think that's unprecedented. Really?
It's only making big waves because it's indoors. In my mind (and possibly Nick Willis's), indoors is probably almost just as fast as outdoors for the mile. There is zero wind. Temp is 70.
Anyways, 3:50 is equivalent to 3:32.9 for 1500. Last year, there were 12 men that broke 3:33 for 1500 and 5 of them were younger than Cheserek who was born in 1994 - Timothy Cheriyot (3:29.10, born in 1995), Ronald Kwemoi\ (3:30.89 born in 1995) , Charles Simotwo (3:32.59, born in 1995) , Yomif Kejelcha (3:32.04, born in 97), Justus Soget (3:32.97, born in 99).
Kejelcha's listed age is 3.5 years younger than Ches.
When Caleb Ndiku was Cheserek's age, he had already run 3:29.50 in the 1500, 12:59 in the 5000 and won World Championship silver in the 5000.
So yes, I think the world is ready for someone of his talent. It's running on the DL circuit every single year but a Western bias prevents most people from appreciating it.
Don't misunderstand me. Cheserek is a beast and it's great that Americans are paying attention to a Kenyan talent and recognizing it as being something special - it's just sad that they have to go to school over her (and enjoy all the advantages of the Western world) to be properly appreciated.
Rojo
Don't minimize sub 3:50. You guys certainly didn't minimize Rupp running 3:50. And many athletes in highschool compete at age 19 is it only a big deal when they are succesful?
Yeah, agreed. I will be 19 at the end of my senior year of track and will compete at state as a 19 year old. I didnt get held back, my birthday is just late spring and my parents decided that being a little bit older would be nice. I actually know a fair amount of people that their parents chose the same path for them. Does this mean that I should not run senior year because "I should be in college?" No, I should still run and I am sure that if Lukas Verzbicas ran senior year instead of skipping a year many people would be fine with that although he would be older than most people.