https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTRTvo2ouoCoevett wrote:
El G was notorious like all the other great EPO runners for running ridiculously fast times and looking like they weren't even out of breath at the end.
Webb started jumping and shouting after his AR. But he did do that a lot- he just had a huge fire in him I guess.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Coevett wrote:
El G was notorious like all the other great EPO runners for running ridiculously fast times and looking like they weren't even out of breath at the end.
But if you actually rewatch his 3:26.00 you can see that he likely couldn't run for another 50 meters let alone 109 meters in 17 seconds. You can see the lactic acid stores in his legs reach their very limt about 10 meters before the finshing line. Judged perfectly of course, if he'd been running a Mile that night he wouldn't have ran the first 1500m quite so fast. Does that make any kind of sense to you guys?
https://youtu.be/6fFAU3B31cc?t=55sBTW, is that Steve Ovett commentating with a thick Australian accent? How surreal is that? Steve Ovett, maybe the most naturally gifted Miler of all time and commentating in an Ozzie accent in a race in which a doped up Moroccan runs nearly 5 seconds faster than him (and not much more than a decade after him).
I know Americans never leave their country but Ovett sounds the same as he always did.
Watching it again, you're right, he hadn't picked up his thick Australian accent then - he certainly has one now.
BTW, I'm British (as my name and support for Coe, Ovett, and Cram would suggest).
Coevett wrote:
A 17 second gap between the 1500 and Mile record has always been about the historic norm hasn't it? I mean when Coe, Cram, Ovett were running 3:29/30 their Mile records were 3:46/47/48. Obviouly with the benefits of EPO, perhaps you would expect El G to bring it down to maybe 16 seconds which is almost what he did.
Although the OP is bull, it would have been great to see El G run something totally ridiculous like 3:41. It would only have made it that much more obvious that he was on EPO and all his times are fraudulent. Does anyone really think that El G was naturally about a second and a half a lap faster than Cram and Coe at their imperious bests?
Also, to the idiot who said nobody has run the 800m under 1:44 clean - are you really saying that even the likes of Dave Wottle and Ivo Van Damme in the 70s were doping? If they were doping, why not the 50s and 60s runners? Maybe nobody has run under 1:46 clean?
The crazy thing is, I agreed with just about everything you said. So challenging me is unnecessary, and calling me an idiot wouldn’t have made your point any clearer. I never said 1:44 was the real world record, I said “clean” in quotations to challenge another poster’s claim that 3:49 was the “clean” Mile world record.
I have my own opinions, but they don’t matter, a discussion should be based on logic and facts. If you don’t get that than you should at least try to be mindful of what you type.
Rotich the Rotich wrote:
Coevett wrote:
A 17 second gap between the 1500 and Mile record has always been about the historic norm hasn't it? I mean when Coe, Cram, Ovett were running 3:29/30 their Mile records were 3:46/47/48. Obviouly with the benefits of EPO, perhaps you would expect El G to bring it down to maybe 16 seconds which is almost what he did.
Although the OP is bull, it would have been great to see El G run something totally ridiculous like 3:41. It would only have made it that much more obvious that he was on EPO and all his times are fraudulent. Does anyone really think that El G was naturally about a second and a half a lap faster than Cram and Coe at their imperious bests?
Also, to the idiot who said nobody has run the 800m under 1:44 clean - are you really saying that even the likes of Dave Wottle and Ivo Van Damme in the 70s were doping? If they were doping, why not the 50s and 60s runners? Maybe nobody has run under 1:46 clean?
The crazy thing is, I agreed with just about everything you said. So challenging me is unnecessary, and calling me an idiot wouldn’t have made your point any clearer. I never said 1:44 was the real world record, I said “clean” in quotations to challenge another poster’s claim that 3:49 was the “clean” Mile world record.
I have my own opinions, but they don’t matter, a discussion should be based on logic and facts. If you don’t get that than you should at least try to be mindful of what you type.
You're right - I didn't read your post clearly and got it wrong, so I apologize. It's the guy who you were replying to who is the moron.
Cleaner wrote:
.....I mean, we're impressed now when someone gets near 3:50 in the mile, 7 SECONDS off the world record.
That suggests that a clean world record would probably be around 3:49.
Another explanation might be that the current generation (and the EPO generation) aren't actually as fast as the last generation of great white milers (Coe, Ovett, Scott, Cram, Walker etc). Given that even if the 70's and 80's lot were doping (and no evidence whatsoever of it), many of the current African crop are microdosing EPO which even in that limited form is likely to be more powerful than anything anyone had before 1992.
Bout tree fiddy!
Coevett wrote:
BTW, I'm British (as my name and support for Coe, Ovett, and Cram would suggest).
Geez...Imagine that.
Actually--around 3:43 probably and he did this WR about a year after his 1500 WR. From the video you can see this was perfectly paced and Noah Ngeny was pushing him all the way to the wire. If anyone should have run 3:42 it should have been Ngeny given his relative youth, being the 1000 m WR holder, and winning the gold at Sydney. However, an auto accident ended his career so we will never know.
"BTW, is that Steve Ovett commentating with a thick Australian accent? How surreal is that? Steve Ovett, maybe the most naturally gifted Miler of all time and commentating in an Ozzie accent in a race in which a doped up Moroccan runs nearly 5 seconds faster than him (and not much more than a decade after him)."
Thick Australian accent??? You clearly haven't spoken to very many Australians.... jeez. Yes Ovett has lived here for a long time and it's modified his vowels a little bit, but that accent is still 85% his old English accent.
I say a 3:26 1500m is worth a 3:43.21 mile.
Kev2 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=674UY0ehxWIActually--around 3:43 probably and he did this WR about a year after his 1500 WR. From the video you can see this was perfectly paced and Noah Ngeny was pushing him all the way to the wire. If anyone should have run 3:42 it should have been Ngeny given his relative youth, being the 1000 m WR holder, and winning the gold at Sydney. However, an auto accident ended his career so we will never know.
You're right, and Ngeny showed glimpses of what a truly great Kenyan might have been capable of in the EPO era at Middle Distance.
It's unfortunate that during the EPO era there wasn't a real great Kenyan of the stature of Rudisha or Kiprop and the 1500 was largely left to the North African dopers. Otherwise we might have seen 3:41 for the Mile and a sub 3:25.
I don't regard Kipketer to be in Rudisha's class as his times were likely aided with unlimited EPO, and despite that still wasn't able to take the challenge at 1500. Rudisha on EPO full blast, steroids, HGH etc would have been a scary sight, and would at least have allowed him to break the 1000m WR if not the 1500.
Steeeev wrote:
"BTW, is that Steve Ovett commentating with a thick Australian accent? How surreal is that? Steve Ovett, maybe the most naturally gifted Miler of all time and commentating in an Ozzie accent in a race in which a doped up Moroccan runs nearly 5 seconds faster than him (and not much more than a decade after him)."
Thick Australian accent??? You clearly haven't spoken to very many Australians.... jeez. Yes Ovett has lived here for a long time and it's modified his vowels a little bit, but that accent is still 85% his old English accent.
Well maybe his accent (today) will still sound British to you, but to English ears it sounds Australian now - especially after listening to him so many times in his athletics days and then for a few years when he was a BBC commentator. I've lived in Earls Court and Brighton and I know the difference between a Sussex accent and a Syndey accent. :D Listen to Ovett more recently and it's clear he has picked up the accent. I've known British people who sound Australian after just a few months living or working there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqGewc4xcgEkjjlkqj wrote:
El G was clean.
Deal with it.
GOAT.
Nah, he couldn't have been clean. He wasn't born somewhere on the North American continent between Canada and Mexico.
Taro wrote:
kjjlkqj wrote:
El G was clean.
Deal with it.
GOAT.
Nah, he couldn't have been clean. He wasn't born somewhere on the North American continent between Canada and Mexico.
As usual, all you have is the racism card to counter all the stack of circumstantial evidence that points to El G being a huge doper.
Coevett wrote:
Taro wrote:
Nah, he couldn't have been clean. He wasn't born somewhere on the North American continent between Canada and Mexico.
As usual, all you have is the racism card to counter all the stack of circumstantial evidence that points to El G being a huge doper.
False. I didn't say anything about race. And it wouldn't make any sense anyway, because El G is Caucasian, the same race as the majority population of the U.S. You need to learn the difference between geography and race. English is your native language, right?
My point was that groundless accusations like this are too often the product of brain-dead tribalism. A good example is the American kiddies who whine endlessly, without a shred of supporting evidence, that Lasse Viren was blood-doping when he crushed their beloved Pre.
Bbbbbut Pre . . . was cool. Hhhhe had big pecs. Aaand a cool mustache. And he promised to "put crap in their legs." I saw it in a movie.
+1 The Purdy Points for 1mi in 3:43.13 is 1,096.96 The Purdy Points for 1500m in 3:26.0 is 1,096.26 According to Purdy, El G's mile WR is actually better than the 1500m WR.
Purdy wrote:
I say a 3:26 1500m is worth a 3:43.21 mile.
What if El G hadn't stopped running at all? How far would he have gone by now?
Taro wrote:
Coevett wrote:
As usual, all you have is the racism card to counter all the stack of circumstantial evidence that points to El G being a huge doper.
False. I didn't say anything about race. And it wouldn't make any sense anyway, because El G is Caucasian, the same race as the majority population of the U.S. You need to learn the difference between geography and race. English is your native language, right?
My point was that groundless accusations like this are too often the product of brain-dead tribalism. A good example is the American kiddies who whine endlessly, without a shred of supporting evidence, that Lasse Viren was blood-doping when he crushed their beloved Pre.
Bbbbbut Pre . . . was cool. Hhhhe had big pecs. Aaand a cool mustache. And he promised to "put crap in their legs." I saw it in a movie.
WTF? You implied that accusations of doping against El G was due to racism, unless your statement concerning 'wasn't born between Canada and Mexico' was just a meaningless verbalized mental fart on your part.
El G caucasian??? Never knew Moroccans were caucasian, which usually refers to the Indo-European racial/linguistic group. Moroccans are a mixture of Berbas and Arabs. Unless you can point to a link which states that he had European ancestry.
No supporting evidence that Viren doped. LOL! Everybody knows Viren doped, not just Americans.
El G was certainly the best EPO doper, but we will never even remotely be able to judge how good he was against other greats from different eras. He also might have just been an exceptionally good responder to EPO, like many Moroccans seem to be, although maybe they were just overdosing on it which would explain why they failed tests more than other countries.
It also seems a coincidence as I stated in another thread that arguably the best EPO runner's career fell almost exactly between the start of the EPO era and the end of it. In other words, he had the maximum opportunity to gain the benefits of EPO.
Coevett wrote:
WTF? You implied that accusations of doping against El G was due to racism, unless your statement concerning 'wasn't born between Canada and Mexico' was just a meaningless verbalized mental fart on your part.
The only thing "implied" in what I wrote was the reference to Americans. Again, I neither said nor implied ANYTHING about race. Keep this up and lazy little name-callers like you will render the term "racism" completely meaningless and you'll have to invent another -ism to sling in lieu of reasoned argument.
Coevett wrote:El G caucasian??? Never knew Moroccans were caucasian, which usually refers to the Indo-European racial/linguistic group.
That doesn't surprise me:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_raceCoevett wrote:No supporting evidence that Viren doped. LOL! Everybody knows Viren doped, not just Americans.
Then be a big boy and give us the evidence that he blood-doped.