What kind of speed did Gerry Lindgren have?

sfsdfsdfsdf wrote:

John Chaplin told me that Lindgren's 400m best was 54. I believe he gave me the time to the tenth, but that was almost 25 years ago and I don't remember the exact time anymore. I don't remember his precise words, but he said it in the context that this was as fast as Lindgren could go (that he was not gifted with speed but was an otherworldly aerobic monster).

im pretty sure this is the 400 speed of one dathan ritzenhien

lets take a look at the two of them

gerry ritz

400m 54 54 (high school)

800m ? 1:54 (high school)

1500m 3:44.6(hs) 3:42.99

mile 4:01(hs) 4:05.9 (1600m hs)

2mile 8:34.7i 8:11.74

5k 13:33.8 12:56.27 (13:27.77 was his college PR)

10k 28:40.2 27:22.28 (27:38.50 was his college PR)

gerrys 6 mile PR could have been a 27:58-28:05 range for 10k

other notes their high school 5k best

13:44.0 13:44.70

i would say they are very similar, and i would bet that the PRs would be closer if gerry had good tracks or dathan had to run his on dirt.

I think most of Lindgren's stories are based in truth, but at a time when runners didn't go around using running watches. I'm willing to believe the 50x400 workout where they started a new rep every 3 minutes. You can actually time that with any old clock and do the workout. But everything that involves him out running on his own is suspect. I'm sure he had no solid concept of actual run durations or lengths. They may as well have been Badger miles. Cut the guy some slack. He didn't have a Timex Ironman and definitely didn't have a Garmin. Do I think he ran for a long time, sat down to lunch, and ran longer? Yes. Do I think he ran in the middle of the night and slept poorly? Yes. Do I think his top end speed was relatively bad and undertrained? Yes. Do I think he started a marathon at faster pace than people at the time were accustomed to before the wheels fell off? Yes. Do I think he's a compulsive liar? No.

" I don't like to watch internet videos because I'm old and anti-technology"

Trolls internet most of the day.

HRE wrote:

I don't know and don't care about whose motive seems to be simply to continue an argument with me.

Um, the video ends the argument. YOU are the one continuing it by refusing to watch it.

HRE schooled hard wrote:

" I don't like to watch internet videos because I'm old and anti-technology"

Trolls internet most of the day.

I am old. I like reading on the internet and sometimes watching live sports events. I do not like watching videos. If enough of you guys saw Lindgren say he was at sub two hour pace for 26 miles of a marathon, I'll believe you. If he said something like he was AT sub 2:00 pace at 26 miles of the marathon, it may well be that he picked his pace up to that level briefly. Again, I really don't care. I only got on here to pass along a comment about his 440 times. But note that at no point in any of this have I said that I believe he ran 26 miles or even 24 miles of a marathon at sub two hour pace. I do know that reports from his first marathon said he was on world record pace for a good bit of the race and then died.

Gerry's reportedly said things that are hard to believe at times. Sometimes things that are hard to believe are true anyway. Sometimes they aren't. As to the original topic and his speed and whether or not he ever ran under 60 seconds in an open 440, in Fred Wilt's "How They Train; Long Distances," Lindgren's 880 and 440 times are given as 1:58.1 and 54.3 with a comment that these times were run in workouts. So yes, he could run under 60 seconds for a 440. Under 50 seems a long shot. And it's possible that he did run under 60 in an open 440 or that he ran one or two over 60 and never ran another.

Englehart Humperdink wrote:

HRE wrote:

I don't know and don't care about whose motive seems to be simply to continue an argument with me.

Um, the video ends the argument. YOU are the one continuing it by refusing to watch it.

I'm not arguing. I just don't plan to watch the video. Again, I did not get onto this thread to discuss whether or not Lindgren claimed to have run 24 or 26 miles of a marathon at sub two hour pace, or any pace really. it's off topic. I got on to pass along something I recall him saying about his 440 times. If there is something on that video about that subject, maybe I'll watch. But we've been up and down the road about how fast Lindgren claimed to have run for part of a marathon here at least 26.2 times over the years.

HRE, this is a word for word transcript of the interview:

"My first one was Trails End... (interrupted)"

"...Trails End marathon in Oregon. And for the first 24 miles of the race I was under two hour pace. And then, I died. And in the last two miles people came by me laughing saying 'Welcome to the marathon'..."

"And you'd think I'd learned my lesson but the second one I ran I was under two hour pace through 26 miles. And I was well under it, but I couldn't run under two hours for the marathon because about 150m from the finish line I passed out. And I wake up in an ambulance *mumbles, laughs* "

He clearly states that he was going to run under two hours for the full marathon had he not passed out.

I have nothing against him or you, but to pretend he said something different is bizarre, especially without watching the interview.

Thanks for the summary and quotes. As I said, and I hope this ends the discussion, I am not pretending he didn't say any of those things. I said in an earlier post that if enough people who watched the video agree that he said those things I'd believe them and so I see no need to watch the interview. But again, is there anything on the interview about his top end speed or his 440 time, i.e., the original topic of this thread? I don't know how a discussion of those topics has anything to do with bizarre comments he made about the marathons he ran.

Because you can't really trust ANYTHING he says. How hard is this?

Where's your profuse apology by the way?

Clearly the quotes have finally reached you despite your best efforts to avoid them.

HRE wrote:

I am not pretending he didn't say any of those things. I said in an earlier post that if enough people who watched the video agree that he said those things I'd believe them and so I see no need to watch the interview. .

What the hell man?

Rate Gerry's best races.

8:40 indoor high school two mile

16:08 4 mile cross country

12:53 3 mile on dirt track

27:11.6 6 mile world record with Billy Mills

24 mile marathon at sub 2 hour pace

Beating the Russians at 10,000m right after high school

I doubt he had much interest in proving his top end speed from racing a 440.

As for me, no I never ran a 400 race or workout under 60. I ran 200 workouts in 27-28. At the end of longer races I could go under 60 for a 400. It could of been a mental block. I'm not sure. I did not try often but I did try. My teammates would rib me on my speed all the time. I actually wanted to run sub 60. I would guess that at the end of a few longer races I closed in 56-57. And, yes I know it does not make much sense.

Gerry's "mental constitution" I'm not sure about. Is he full of it? Maybe. Maybe he is telling the truth or telling the truth as he remembers it.

Well, I have tried to avoid everything on this thread aside from my original post. I really am not that interested in it, thought that would be all I'd say here and be gone. You didn't actually provide a quote as I asked for . It was a link but yes, I'll accept that he said what you claimed and am sorry I didn't believe you the first time you wrote it.

I will argue that finding someone making two or three bizarre claims does not in any way mean you can't trust ANYTHING he or she says. Saying that you ran 26 miles in maybe an hour fifty eight and then collapsed is bizarre and unbelievable. Saying that you never ran an open 440 in less than 60 seconds when you don't race that distance does not. So despite not believing the sub two hour marathon for 24 or more miles story, I still find it very possible that he never ran an open 440 in under 60 seconds while also believing that he may have done so and forgotten or decided to say otherwise. In any case, I think the claim that he could run under 50 seconds for the distance is very unlikely.

HRE wrote:

You didn't actually provide a quote as I asked for . It was a link but yes, I'll accept that he said what you claimed and am sorry I didn't believe you the first time you wrote it.

.

My goodness.

Jerry Lingering wrote:

Despite being a heelstriker Lindgren had low 50 speed. He would have likely been faster if he trained for speed and did less garbage miles.

No, Lindgren was a mid-foot striker. If he had been a heel striker he would never have ran the kind of times he ran or the amount of mileage he completed. After nearly a half-century of running I feel certain you are badly mistaken.

You could say that Carl Lewis landed on his heel when he ran the 100 but he touched ball of foot first then touched lightly on his heel before surging forward again. That is pretty typical of sprinters.

A fast distance runner will land closer to his heel than Lewis but the good ones will be more towards a ball-of-foot landing. Slower distance runners might have sloppy landings and actually slap the ground. That's to be avoided. We all need to constantly work on our form to achieve mid-foot striking.

The only time heel striking is recommended is by ill-informed PE teachers who ruin running for those unfortunate kids.

Please do some research on this. The landing of the foot is the result of your running form. If you are designed that way then you do not understand all that goes into running form.

There are a lot of great sources to study running form. (Do not read a few chapters quickly, take the time to do things right.)

HRE:

There are coaches and athletes that think their way is best and that they have secrets.

There are also those individuals that resent and even hate people who have knowledge.

I respect what you say and most often gain from what you write.

There is an old saying:

Never argue with a pig in mud, you'll never win and besides he likes it!

Yawn. It makes no difference how a person lands when it comes to running ability.

I think that's as hard as I have laughed at any comment in a very long time on LRC! Where do people get this stuff?

Dead comedians...