Yup. They're doping.
Your post should be required reading for all runners nationwide.
The sport's been poisoned to some degree.
Truth is not always a pleasant thing.
Serious good luck to you 160-mpw-training friend. May he win a big one, just for the sake of fairness.
runninginsd,
the measures that are in place now are effective and that, of course there are those who slip through the cracks.
if you've seen the video from world cross (2004), as soon as Bekele crosses the line after the 4km, he was hurried away, still breathing hard, to a toilet where the camera attempts to follow him in but obviously can go no further.
certainly, i think (and know) that there were officials aiding in the process, but today I cannot see that -- with busts of popular athletes like Jacobs, Chambers, White, Toth.... I realise that they were only caught because their drugs were dropped off, but that's what I would call a break in the case.
You could make a case against Kenya and Ethiopia also. While they've had great runners for over 40 years, things took off once Dr. Rosa dropped cycling as his sport of choice and began working with Kenyans, who all of a sudden wound up with an army of runners. With no real changes in training protocol or numbers of participants. Same goes for the Ethiopians, who erupted with the arrival of Jos Hermens, apparently no stranger to doping, and then others who have found the perfect lab - no outside eyes interfering, no real spot drug testing, and political protection to the fullest. Look at Lagat getting off. Look at the death of Bekele's girl - kicked under the carpet when it should have been investigated. The high number of Kenyan runners dying relatively young - of course always due to brain tumors or other rare maladies.
hmmm....my understanding is when Rosa showed up "training protocol", changed a great deal.
after all, one of the main advantages of EPO is the ability to train harder no?
and even if you were to think that evey world record set was aided, it doesnt matter...IF Bekele was loaded to the gills when he set the record, he would still be faster than anyone else clean.
I've been on EPO for 2 years and my times have really dropped. Still working on my weight though to try and get under 4 hours for the marathon. Here I am.....
Oh trackhead dont get me wrong. I do not think Bekele is cheating at all but it doesnt mean that there are not a few who are. I for one say lets not let the few bad apples ruin the whol thing and say they all are. But this is a world turning to science for everything and sadly a lot of runners are turning that way as well.
From 1975 to 1993 Ethiopia was ruled by a vicious Communist dictatorship, under which more that 1,000,000 Ethiopians politically opposed to the government were murdered or "disappeared." You can't have a program under those conditions. A few athletes made through: Yifter in 1980 and Dinsamo's WR in 1988 were pretty much it. You had the occasional runner on the European circuit but no program.
Somewhat similarly, it wasn't until the 1980s that serious coaching found it's way into Kenya. The introduction of serious prize money must have been an immediate motivator for young Kenyan athletes.
Additionally, these are two nations that missed consecutive Olympiads in an era before WCs where the Olympics were everything in global athletics. Both Kenya and Ethiopia boycotted along with the whole of Africa to protest New Zealand's rugby team playing South Africa's in 1976 and Kenya went along with the USA's anti-Soviet boycott in 1980 (I'd like to have seen Kenya asking the USA to go along with Africa's boycott in '76). Conversely, communist-ruled Ethiopia followed the Soviet boycott in LA 84 and then was one of two countries (Cuba and Nicaragua) to join North Korea's boycott of Seoul. Imagaine what a consecutive boycott of the summer olympics would do to track in America, or even worse in Ethiopia's case: one Olympic games between 1972 and 1992. That would pretty much kill Olympic sports in this country.
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Soccer death for English boy
58 words
20 November 2004
The Irish Examiner
English
© Irish Examiner, 2004. Thomas Crosbie Media, TCH
A South Yorkshire Police spokesman said officers believe the teenager was walking back to the centre spot after his goal on Thursday evening when he fell down.
He was taken to hospital following strenuous attempts to save his life but he was pronounced dead less than two hours after he collapsed.
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CA Soccer Death
242 words
4 August 2004
07:00 am
Associated Press Newswires
English
(c) 2004. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
ANTIOCH, Calif. (AP) - Authorities are trying to figure out why an apparently healthy 9-year-old girl suddenly collapsed and died after her first soccer practice.
Ariana Williams, who was a swimmer and took karate lessons, collapsed and died Monday night shortly after her first soccer practice at Grant Elementary School in Antioch.
"My only baby -- and I saw it all," said her mother, Sheila Washington. "She was my best little friend. She was my whole life. I don't know what I'm going to do without her."
Two autopsies Tuesday could not determine a cause of death, Sgt. Daryl England of the Contra Costa County coroner's officer told the San Francisco Chronicle. Authorities still plan to conduct further tests.
Williams, an active child, was determined to be healthy at a physical in June, her mother said.
The weather was cool Monday night and Williams was not injured before she collapsed.
"At the end of practice, I called them all in," coach Ryan Frits told the Chronicle. "She ran right up. Then she just fell over. Everybody thought she was kind of goofing off. We said, `Get up.' She made a small effort to lift herself and then completely went limp and fell."
A firefighter and police officer, who were parents of two of the kids, immediately gave Williams CPR before paramedics arrived. Williams was taken to Sutter Delta Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead.
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Heart defect to blame for 11-year-old soccer death
116 words
1 June 2004
02:38 pm
Associated Press Newswires
English
(c) 2004. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
GERMANTOWN, Md. (AP) - An 11-year-old boy who died while playing soccer had an irregular heartbeat and a defect in an artery leading to his heart, according to a state medical examiner report released Tuesday.
Luis Alfredo Ruiz of Germantown collapsed during a May 8 soccer game at the Maryland SoccerPlex in Germantown eight minutes after entering the game.
Ruiz went into cardiac arrest and was later pronounced dead at Shady Grove Hospital.
According to the autopsy report released by the Montgomery County Police, Ruiz's death was ruled "natural." His family did not know of his medical condition before he died, police said.
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Soccer Death Brings New Heartache.
538 words
14 October 2003
Bristol Evening Post
12
English
Copyright (c) 2003 Bristol Evening Post & Press Ltd. All Rights Reserved.
Tributes have been paid to a young goalkeeper who died in the middle of a football match.
The sudden death of James Gray on Sunday came eight years after his sister Sarah died, aged 17, of viral myocarditis while horse-riding.
James, aged 24, of Weston, Bath, collapsed on the pitch moments after saving a penalty during a Somerset FA Challenge Cup match.
He was playing for Bath side Red Lion Madrid against a team from Weston-super-Mare, the White Hart, at the Odd Down playing fields in Bath.
Spectators attempted to revive him after he fell to the ground in the 25th minute of the game.
But he was still unconscious when paramedics rushed him to the Royal United Hospital in Bath, where he later died.
James will be buried in Haycombe Cemetery next to Sarah, his only sibling, who died in 1995.
Family friend Paula Kendrick said: "It's unbelievable the same thing can happen twice. We were told it was a one in a million chance." James, a grocery manager at Sainsbury's in Green Park, Bath, had been due to become engaged to his 22-year-old girlfriend, Karen Eason, a travel agent from Saltford, in the near future.
James's mother, Sue, paid tribute to her son and his love for his girlfriend. She said: "After his sister died, James was never one to be a naughty teenager.
"He was quite subdued until he met Karen. She was the love of his life.
"They went everywhere together. He loved her dearly." Karen's mother, Annette Eason, said her daughter's boyfriend was very popular.
She said: "All his teammates are devastated. They came to see him in hospital.
"Everyone came to see him. He was a very well-loved guy." James's teammates yesterday laid flowers at the pitch where he died.
The cause of James's death has not yet been confirmed, although a heart attack was suspected.
His friend Ian Dunning said he would miss his mate.
He said: "We played football, cricket, tennis, squash and we were always going out drinking.
"I can't imagine what it will be like without him. I never saw him raise his fist." James, who was 6ft 4ins, was a keen sportsman and recently ran the Bristol half-marathon in two hours and 25 minutes.
He played for Bath six-a-side team Green Park Rangers as well as Red Lion Madrid, a team formed this summer, mostly from Sainsbury's workers.
Work colleague and teammate, Ross Middleton, aged 21, said: "He was a very bubbly character, one of the nicest people you could meet.
"He was someone everyone could talk to and someone who will be missed very dearly." Andy Russell, player-manager with James's team, said the sad event had come as a terrible shock to everyone.
He said: "He was a lovely bloke and football was his life, he loved playing the game.
"He had just started playing in goal for us and a couple of minutes before he collapsed he had saved a penalty.
"All the team are devastated and it still hasn't sunk in properly yet.
We are all in shock."
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Death of student runner in Snohomish blamed on heart disease
248 words
18 November 2003
03:01 am
Associated Press Newswires
English
(c) 2003. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
EVERETT, Wash. (AP) - A middle school student who collapsed during a cross-country meet died of cardiomyopathy, a heart disease, the Snohomish County medical examiner has determined.
The finding was issued Monday in the case of Merridy Jane Stilwell, 12, who felt ill after running about three-fourths of a mile, sat down and experienced an apparent seizure in which her heart stopped beating Sept. 29 at Snohomish High School.
No defibrillator, a device which delivers electric shocks to restore a heartbeat, was immediately available.
Coaches performed cardiopulmonary resuscitation until paramedics arrived within four minutes and used their defibrillator. Stilwell, a seventh grader at Lake Stevens Middle School, died after being rushed to Providence Medical Center in Everett.
The Snohomish School Board has since adopted a resolution to have defibrillators in some schools and train at least half of the district's employees to use the devices.
Authorities said they did not know whether immediate use of a defibrillator would have saved Stilwell.
"That's something I couldn't say," said John Hinchcliffe, a battalion chief at Fire District 4. "I don't know if any earlier defibrillation would have made a difference."
Cardiomyopathy, a disease in which the heart muscle loses its ability to pump blood, is relatively uncommon and may strike without warning, often in the young, according to a National Institutes of Health Web site.
The cause of muscle damage usually cannot be determined.
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Teen runner collapses during cross-country race
279 words
6 October 2003
01:23 pm
Associated Press Newswires
English
(c) 2003. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
BELFAST, Maine (AP) - An autopsy on a 14-year-old boy who collapsed and died during a cross-country meet was inconclusive on Monday.
Further tests are planned to determine why Joseph Diprete-DiGioia died, according to the state medical examiner's office in Augusta. Despite the autopsy results, officials said there was nothing suspicious about the boy's death.
A search was organized after Diprete-DiGioia never made it across the finish line Saturday afternoon in the Maine XC Festival of Champions. His body was found near the running path behind the Troy Howard Middle School.
Police Chief Allen Weaver said the last sighting of the runner was when he passed the first checkpoint.
Belfast Area High School Principal Butch Arthers described Diprete-DiGioia as a bright student who was well-liked by his peers.
Grief counselors were made available Sunday at the high school. Support staff also will be available for Belfast Area High School and Troy Howard Middle School students during the week, said Bob Young, SAD 34 superintendent.
"We will have the staff in place to try and keep things as normal as possible, which is difficult in a case like this. Anything like this has a sobering and moving effect on a school because it happens unpredictably. We are working with our crisis team and it was a very somber group that met here this morning."
Diprete-DiGioia was competing in the second race of the day when he collapsed. There were about 160 runners in his group.
Altogether, more than 550 runners from across the state took part in the all-day event, Weaver said.
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Teen runner dies in Belfast Freshman collapses at meet
WALTER GRIFFIN; OF THE NEWS STAFF
579 words
6 October 2003
Bangor Daily News
All
1
English
Copyright (c) 2003 Bell & Howell Information and Learning Company. All rights reserved.
BELFAST - A 14-year-old boy from Belfast Area High School apparently collapsed and died while running through the woods in a weekend cross country meet, authorities said Sunday.
Joseph Diprete-DiGioia of Belfast was competing Saturday in the second annual Maine XC Festival of Champions when he collapsed on or near the running path behind the Troy Howard Middle School.
Police Chief Allen Weaver said the last recorded sighting of Diprete-DiGioia was when he passed the first checkpoint.
When the freshman runner failed to emerge from the woods at the finish line, his parents notified organizers and an extensive search was mounted. He was found sometime later beside the running trail at approximately 3 p.m.
Butch Arthers, principal of the high school, was at the meet.
"This is my 14th year [as a school faculty member] and this is the first time we've had a student-athlete death at school occur during a season," Arthers said.
"He was a bright student and well-liked by everybody he hung out with," Arthers said.
The death was not considered suspicious, and an autopsy will be performed to determine its cause.
The school department reacted to the death by organizing its crisis team and scheduling counseling sessions.
Grief counselors were made available Sunday afternoon at the high school. Support staff will also be available for Belfast Area High School and Troy Howard Middle School students during the week, said Bob Young, SAD 34 superintendent.
"We're certainly very sad about what happened and very sympathetic to what the family is going through at this time," Young said Sunday. "We will have the staff in place to try and keep things as normal as possible, which is difficult in a case like this. Anything like this has a sobering and moving effect on a school because it happens unpredictably. We are working with our crisis team and it was a very somber group that met here this morning."
Diprete-DiGioia was competing in the second race of the day when he collapsed. There were about 160 runners in his group.
Two more races were held after the race Diprete-DiGioia was in.
Weaver said more than 550 runners from across the state took part in the all-day event.
Arthers said he was unsure what the death would mean for the school's cross country team. "I don't know their plans. They're going to get together after school [Monday] and talk about what's going to happen."
Ryan McLaughlin, a Bangor Daily News sports clerk who was doing a story on the meet, was present when word of the death spread Saturday.
"During the course of the awards ceremony, the Belfast athletes were going in and out of the gym as I was doing an interview, so I thought something was up," McLaughlin said.
McLaughlin attended the meet with the Brewer High School cross country team and learned of Diprete-DiGioia's death from Brewer coach Glendon Rand, who announced it to the team on the bus.
"It's just a tragic ending to what had been a great day. We were all shocked and everyone got real quiet," McLaughlin said.
The Belfast course is 3.1 miles and is also the site of the high school cross country championships for eastern Maine.
NEWS sportswriter Andrew Neff contributed to this story.
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Runner, 12, collapses at school practice, dies
Kavita Kumar; Staff Writer
1,010 words
30 August 2002
Star Tribune (Mpls.-St. Paul) Newspaper of the Twin Cities
METRO
1A
English
(Copyright 2002 Star Tribune)
Twelve-year-old Michael Mundy couldn't wait for Wednesday - the day he and his teammates would receive the black and gold jerseys that they would wear at the Lake Nokomis invitational cross-country meet Thursday.
But just about halfway into their mile-and-a-half run, Michael, of Savage, who was described by relatives and friends as a healthy boy and strong runner, complained that he was tired and lay down on the grass. He died soon after.
The cause of his death Wednesday has not been determined, but his father said the autopsy showed that a portion of his heart was enlarged.
There were no apparent warning signs. He had undergone a physical on June 11, as is required of all athletes in the Burnsville-Eagan- Savage School District, and passed. And he had been running with the team for about three weeks with no problems - many of the runs more vigorous than Wednesday's.
"It was an easy run and it wasn't unusually hot," said Gary Kubat, spokesman for the district. "The general feeling is shock just because he was so young and probably looking forward to junior high - it's an exciting time."
He died just days before he would have entered the halls of Eagle Ridge Junior High School in Savage as a seventh-grader. He had his school picture taken about a week ago. He had already bought his folders and notebooks. And he stopped by the school often to try out his locker combination to make sure he could do it when school started.
Michael, who lived in Savage, spent the summer playing Nintendo 64 with his friends; attending Boy Scout camps, where he learned to make fire from rubbing sticks together (he hoped to be an Eagle Scout one day) and angling, even catching a few bass, with relatives and friends.
"It's just numbness right now," said his mother, Carol, her voice quivering Thursday night.
The day he died, Michael had left her a note in her purse telling her that he loved her.
"He loved to run," his mother said. "He was going into junior high and he said he was going to do cross country in the fall and track in the spring. He felt he could get good at it and he didn't have to be superstrong at it. And he loved the freedom."
Michael was one of the best runners is his class, said 12-year- old Sam Swanson, who had been friends with him since kindergarten. He always finished in the top 15 when they ran timed miles in gym class, Sam said.
Michael persuaded Sam to join the combined cross country team of the district's three junior high schools about two weeks ago.
On Tuesday, the team had a fairly rigorous 2-mile run in between warm-up and cool-down runs, Sam said. Michael had nearly finished that run, so it wasn't surprising to Sam that he was a little tired on Wednesday.
The team was doing a light run from Burnsville High School to a nearby Dairy Queen store, about a mile and a half in all.
About halfway into the run, Michael complained of being tired and began to walk. Then he lay down on the grass. But he didn't appear to be in any pain, Sam said.
"I didn't think anything was wrong, because he did really well the day before," Sam said. But after he couldn't help Michael up, Sam ran ahead about half a block to get his coach. "I said, 'Michael is way back there and he's not getting up. He's still got his eyes open, but he's not getting up.' "
The coach, Brad Robb, who referred questions to the School District on Thursday, ran back to find Michael while Sam continued to the Dairy Queen with his friends. They saw a fire truck go by, and one boy said it might have been for Michael, Sam said.
A man who works in a business near where Michael collapsed performed CPR, said Athletic Director Jim Rohlik. By the time Robb arrived, Michael was lifeless, Rohlik said.
When Sam and his teammates left the Dairy Queen, they saw the ambulance racing to Fairview Ridges Hospital with Michael and Robb in it.
"I can't see why this could happen, because he was a really good runner," Sam said.
The autopsy has not provided any conclusive answers. The manner of death was ruled as natural, but the cause is still being studied, said Jill Romann, senior investigator for the Minnesota Regional Coroner's Office. Heart specialists will be consulted.
"There isn't anything else at face value that people recognized immediately," she said.
Michael's father, Terry, said investigators told him that the only thing out of the ordinary was that the right ventricle of Michael's heart was enlarged.
Dr. Barry Maron of the Minneapolis Heart Institute Foundation has studied sudden death in young athletes but didn't want to speculate on the cause of death. He wasn't involved with the autopsy.
"It's certainly uncommon, but we know that there are a number of cardiovascular diseases that may be otherwise silent and undiagnosed" in young athletes, he said.
There are often no warning signs in such cases, Maron said. And diseases can be hard to detect even during an autopsy.
School psychologists and counselors were on hand Thursday for his teammates, and they will also be there Tuesday, the first day of school. The district's boys' and girls' teams withdrew from Thursday's cross-country meet.
A moment of silence was held in Michael's honor before the Burnsville High football game against Apple Valley on Thursday night.
Services will be held at 11 a.m. Monday at St. James Lutheran Church, 3650 Williams Dr., Burnsville.
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Dopers as well?
The post on distancde runners from spain has me wondering. How is EPO readily available can you just walk onto a pharmacy and buy it off the shelf? Are there other countries like that. Is it just the US that you need a prescrition for EPO?
You are missing the fact of what I am saying to you trackhead. I am not saying that the east africans are the only ones who dope. I am saying there are people in the entire world of athletics that dope. I am not saying all of the best ones. Don't act as if I am pointing fingers at a certain countries. I am just surprised as to how ignorant you can be as to think that no kenyan or Ethipoian is doping. There are dopers in every culture of the wolrd just as there are murders and other such things. Some people are just doing stupid things. I am just sick of you saying Kenya and Ethiopia are the greatest things in the world. Now I am not saying they are all terrible dopers. I believe that some of them are no where near being dirty but there are some just as everywhere else. I am happy for those who do well in other countries because I love the sport and support everyone. But if I have a choice I would want any clean American to beat any clean other country. I am proud of my country and every other country to me is a rival in the sporting world. You seem to always choose them.
Now I am not happy with alot of the lazy nature that has come about in our country. People always wanting to find the shortcuts to the top by "can i get away with not doing a long run?" "Can I run lower mileage?" I am sick of all of these people. If you want to be the best in this sport you have to put in the miles. Distance running is not about genes or who is born where it is simply about who has worked the hardest. That is why when I compete against the people who have put in the work I am proud to say i compete against the best at my level of ability. I say bring on the East Africians and every other country who puts in the work. Bring out the best competition but leave the cheaters home. I will proudly wave my countries flag and not that of another countries as you have. I will be rooting for the good old red white and blue. Those who have worked the hardest will come out on top. That is all I care about is the best competiton possible. I am sorry that their lives are harder in their country but I can't control that so i dont care. The Americans of the 60s and 70s understood this and it is time to bring the attitude back that the hardest worker will come out on top. Its time for the blue collars not the white.
trackhead said "...the measures that are in place now are effective and that, of course there are those who slip through the cracks."
Yes, for the known drugs, but what about the argument that the current testing measures cannot keep up with the new stuff?
Some of my fellow classmates use steroids...they are high school football players, too.
elitewatcher - your post appears to refer to a very credible source? Why? It has the kind of detail that one sees with accurate accounts. I am sure you feel the same way. In this vein, it is one of the more disturbing (but provocative) posts on the drug issue I have read in a while. There's something about this drug issue that reflects that we have reached a point where there is no going back - although there will be people caught and politics involved.
it is a constant game of cat and mouse
Sorry my friend if it was all about hardwork and nothing to do with Genes then all the untrained kids who compete in their first race would all finish tie....
Of course its about Genes - You either have it or you dont! If you do then you need to train bloody hard and then you will have a shot at being the best.
Martin-X: Thanks for your long and edifying post. It was needed.
trackhead: Your long post wasn't particularly edifying--at least not with reference to the issue at hand, although it did make clear that athletes of various ages and in various sports sometimes suffer unexpected heart attacks. But heart attacks reputedly due to EPO weren't something my informant said much about. His whole point was that the preponderance of elite international distance runners AREN'T dying of heart attacks; they're flourishing as supermen and winning all the races. (The several elite Spanish runners who died are the exception that proves the rule.) Your would-be "refutation," in other words, refutes nothing.
To all those who have jumped on the "red face" accusation, insisting that it is a self-evident absurdity: well, perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't. I have a wedding photo of me, taken after I'd consumed a great deal of Champagne, that showed an unnervingly red face. I don't dope. Then again, perhaps there's a grain of truth here. I certainly wouldn't take it into court. I'm happy to dismiss this particular form of "evidence," if you'd like. Do that and you're still left with a credible informant whose story--at least about his own experience with a particular national team--rings true, and remains profoundly disturbing.
To all those who have jumped on my informant's "the top 35 international runners in every event from 1500 meters up through the marathon are dopers" claim: well, of COURSE it's an exaggeration. Jesus. Don't expect my informant--a good, passionate, obsessive runner--to be any less prone to overdoing it than YOU are. Still, your aha! moment doesn't confront the real tenor of his charge: that the PREPONDERANCE of world's-leading elite runners are doping. Is he possibly right? Does the Spanish national experience with EPO, documented as it is, suggest that my informant is a big fat liar or a guy who is probably giving us important information, information worth seriously considering rather than finding any reason to irritably dismiss. Are you really SURE this guy is a liar, or way way offbase? If so, how do you know? What's your experience as an elite runner on the international scene? Why don't you tell your story, as I've related his?
To the poster who knows Alistair Cragg and insists he's not a doper: I believe you, frankly. My informant, wounded as he was by his own experience with a particular national team, may have gotten carried away. Honest, truthtelling people sometimes do that. That's why I stated from the outset that I in no way meant my report to be taken as gospel truth. I ASKED if people thought there was any truth to it. I am, however, convinced that my informant was telling the gospel truth with reference to his own personal experience on a national team. Could he have been exaggerating? That's always possible--with any of us, at any time. Do I think he was exaggerating in this particular case? No.
As for the name of the elite runner himself: no comment.
As for the name of the elite runner himself: no comment
like we said: Pablo Sierra!
--- not very difficult to identify him.
no actually it wouldn't be a tie. It would matter what they have done through their lives. Have their parents made them walk more. It is all about what you do. The more active the kids the better you will be.
Yes, but I agree with Load of Shite's point: choose your parents wisely and train your butt off. Both are required to be the "best".
The biggest obstacle to any argument that the majority of athletes are clean is that it is too easy to beat the system. There have been many coaches, doctor's etc. who have commented on this situation. Number one, athletes are not tested enough. Smart athletes (read: the ones who don't get caught) will cycle their drugs and be clean when tested at championships. Spot testing, especially is remote places, is an extremely minor risk. Two, there are drugs we can't test for even if we tested each athlete every day.
There is too much incentive and not enough controls to say that athletes are not doping. The chance that they will win is good, the chance they will get caught is small. Humans in general do not have high enough moral standards to hold off this temptation. And even if some do, there are others (ie. coaches, managers) who will exploit their athletes without their athletes knowing what is going on.
How to end this? Remove all prize money. Remove any possibility of making a lot of money by running. This will take away the incentive. Hence, with less incentive to better another, there will be higher moral standards applied to the sport.
runninginsandiego, who is doping?
Give us some names you little jerk, or get lost.
You tear into people with vague generalities, protesting that Kenyans and Ethiopians are doping.
Ok, WHO?
I imagine you'll trot out the B. Lagat example and confirm that you are indeed no more than a jealous runner that never fulfilled potential and considers anyone faster "doped to the gills."
