Happyhappyjoyjoy wrote:
So you are blaming Ayana for not having the guts to take the WR pace from the gun, rather than sub-WR pace the last 4000m?
Based on what I've read, that's nowhere close to anything that he said.
#1 ~ Ayana was tired from running away from the field and winning the gold medal in the 10;
#2 ~ Obiri didn't run the 10k and was fresh;
#3 ~ part of a distance at a world record pace is not relevant;
#4 ~ Ayana's fastest 5k is faster than Obiri's and she's faster then that now.
He said that she would have easily won if she had taken it out at WR pace, but she chickened out and waited almost three laps in. Mentally weak, in both regular and Canovian terms. And I concur.
Don't be an idiot ~ wrote:
Happyhappyjoyjoy wrote:So you are blaming Ayana for not having the guts to take the WR pace from the gun, rather than sub-WR pace the last 4000m?
Based on what I've read, that's nowhere close to anything that he said.
#1 ~ Ayana was tired from running away from the field and winning the gold medal in the 10;
#2 ~ Obiri didn't run the 10k and was fresh;
#3 ~ part of a distance at a world record pace is not relevant;
#4 ~ Ayana's fastest 5k is faster than Obiri's and she's faster then that now.
No disrespect to Obiri because wining is winning; however, a fresh Ayana will beat Obiri in a 5K and anyone else on the planet living or has ever lived. Ayana will take the 5K record to the single digests next year. What I have seen tells me that Ayana could probably run a 2-teens marathon right now and get close to Paula's record if she trained a year for it. In fact, if Ayana for some reason decides to run a marathon in the next 2-3 years, if any woman can get close to the WR its her. She reminds me so much of the early 20s TB in her ability to ran at an insanely fast pace with no physical signs of fatigue. I've watched her Rio 10K beginning to end with many pauses and playbacks. (She is very special!) Unfortunately, I am not sure how her career will go, she seems to get far less of the high honor treatment Defar and TB got for their accomplishments, which is reminiscent of how Ethiopia treated GB. Or, perhaps, great female distance runners are just not that big of a deal anymore in Ethiopia.
I think Ayana will break every record from the 5K to the half marathon in the next 2 years. I can also see her running a 2:16 marathon, but she would have to step away from the track and train for it, which may not happen while she is in her prime.
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Kid running after kipchoge wrote:
Obiri went to birmingham in order to get 4th place ha? That was her plan?
AS many here have mentioned, Obiri was fatigued after a long season. All her preparations this year was focused on winning that World championship Gold in London a few days ago. And she did. Of course she would like to continue to win but the season has been long and it would have been wise for her to take a break and maybe race just one of the Diamond League finals. Racing in Birmingham was her agent's(Ricky Sims) idea. Ricky Sims who happens to be a Briton also is agent of Mo Farah and the reason Mo raced there too. It was a bad decision though from Sims to parade Obiri, his new found star and have her beaten. I hope he has learned from this and let Obiri take break for the rest of the season and start preparations for Indoor season since we have World indoor championships next year.
TrackCoach wrote:
No disrespect to Obiri because wining is winning; however, a fresh Ayana will beat Obiri in a 5K and anyone else on the planet living or has ever lived. Ayana will take the 5K record to the single digests next year. What I have seen tells me that Ayana could probably run a 2-teens marathon right now and get close to Paula's record if she trained a year for it. In fact, if Ayana for some reason decides to run a marathon in the next 2-3 years, if any woman can get close to the WR its her. She reminds me so much of the early 20s TB in her ability to ran at an insanely fast pace with no physical signs of fatigue. I've watched her Rio 10K beginning to end with many pauses and playbacks. (She is very special!) Unfortunately, I am not sure how her career will go, she seems to get far less of the high honor treatment Defar and TB got for their accomplishments, which is reminiscent of how Ethiopia treated GB. Or, perhaps, great female distance runners are just not that big of a deal anymore in Ethiopia.
I think Ayana will break every record from the 5K to the half marathon in the next 2 years. I can also see her running a 2:16 marathon, but she would have to step away from the track and train for it, which may not happen while she is in her prime.
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She has went into a 5000m race fresh before and lost, so that's not correct.
What do you mean she wasn't fresh during the WC? She came into the WC with no racing miles on her legs! Her only race before the 5000m race was the 10000m race, but that tired her out??
Again, Viv and Dibaba both ran throughout the year when they won their doubles, and they both had to run the 10000m race before the 5000m...but somehow Ayana should be excused from all of that?
She's weak, because she only has one way of running, get out quick and fast. If that doesn't work, then she is screwed, because she sure in hell isn't going to win a tactical race.
So stop with the excuses. I've seen her lose on fresh legs and not so fresh legs.
she can come in on fresh legs all she wants, 5000m is not 10000m. Dibaba has beaten her. Obiri has beaten her, and Viv has beaten her.
stop with the excuses. Ayana needs to be on fresh legs to win the 5000m(lol). But Viv and Dibaba did those races every year with no problem
just stop.
I was comparing Hassan with Obiri, not Ayana. Hassan doubled the 1500/5k in London, Obiri ran only the latter. Hassan destroyed Obiri at the finish of the 3k DL and was fresh as a daisy. So why should Obiri have been so fatigued when Hassan clearly wasn't?
No comparison ~ wrote:
Juiced2thegills wrote:Then how come Hassan wasn't fatigued? She was in the same 5k race (and also came off the 1500). More like cycling off.
There was no reason for Hassan to be fatigued because she didn't run the 10000m race hard like Ayana.
Juiced2thegills wrote:
I was comparing Hassan with Obiri, not Ayana. Hassan doubled the 1500/5k in London, Obiri ran only the latter. Hassan destroyed Obiri at the finish of the 3k DL and was fresh as a daisy. So why should Obiri have been so fatigued when Hassan clearly wasn't?
No comparison ~ wrote:There was no reason for Hassan to be fatigued because she didn't run the 10000m race hard like Ayana.
Who was fresh as a daisy? Obiri peaked at the WC. Hassan ran hard in a 1500m race, but didn't go hard in the 5000m race. She was pretty much tempo running out there, because the race was over once obiri and ayana went out. So Obiri destroyed Hassan in a race that mattered by 3 pool lengths, but then goes in a DL event that does not matter and loses down the stretch.
Is that something you really want to argue?
scorpion_runner wrote:
She's weak, because she only has one way of running, get out quick and fast. If that doesn't work, then she is screwed, because she sure in hell isn't going to win a tactical race.
You must be the dumbest poster on the planet.
I agree to a certain extent. I believe Almaz is the most gifted athlete in history at maintaining a given pace. But remember during off season training in Addis I confidently believe she uses elite male pacers for some of the time combined with solo track sessions in which she refines her already incredible ability to fire out a fast,strong mic pace.
Oh yeah, one more thing. You know that 10000m rio race, where ayana broke the record.
I believe she ran 29:17, and the record was 29:30.
Guess what? Vivian ran that same race, and she ran 29:32, just missing going under 29:30 herself.
Guess what again? Vivian had to run that 5000m race after running the 10000m race, too
Guess what one more time? Vivian destroyed Ayana on tired legs, just like ayana was on SO CALLED TIRED LEGS.
STOP WITH THE EXCUSES.
I agree with both of you to a certain extent. Firstly to me Obiri coming fourth is no surprise as I believe she is Experiencing the same "double up in a week" issues that Almaz did at the WC - and for the same reasons. Obiris last 4K in London was super fast I guarantee she was shattered for the next few days in her hotel room.
Regarding Almaz, she is becoming largely a victim of her own success. The Ethiopian athletics federation will always require her to run the 10000 at olympics & worlds simply because she is their golden goose, an unbackable favourite more so than any other track athlete in the world.
Obiri is super motivated by assuming Vivian Cheruiyots mantle as the female Kenyan champion distance runner Going forward. Prospectively
the female 5000 is going to become super competitive in the coming year. Hassan is very impressive and has publicly announced her intention of focussing on the 5000.
What do I think? I reckon going forward diamond league 3k and 5 k will see a revolving door of winners.
I think Almaz will retire with possibly three world records. The 10k the half and the marathon. Ironically the one which may elude her is the one she chased so hard last year. The 5!
You just have to look at Almaz run, her biomechanics, her efficiency, her rhythm to know she is an athlete for the ages. My wife who knows nothing about running hit the nail on the head whilst watching her destroy the field in London - she said "oh my god she is effortless and makes everyone else look clumsy"
alanson wrote:
So she should have peaked for Birmingham rather than the WCs?
What a lame excuse. 5k isn't a marathon, you don't need to choose a date to be at your peak. You can stay in a peak 5k shape for months.
Hill run wrote:
I agree with both of you to a certain extent. Firstly to me Obiri coming fourth is no surprise as I believe she is Experiencing the same "double up in a week" issues that Almaz did at the WC - and for the same reasons. Obiris last 4K in London was super fast I guarantee she was shattered for the next few days in her hotel room.
Regarding Almaz, she is becoming largely a victim of her own success. The Ethiopian athletics federation will always require her to run the 10000 at olympics & worlds simply because she is their golden goose, an unbackable favourite more so than any other track athlete in the world.
Obiri is super motivated by assuming Vivian Cheruiyots mantle as the female Kenyan champion distance runner Going forward. Prospectively
the female 5000 is going to become super competitive in the coming year. Hassan is very impressive and has publicly announced her intention of focussing on the 5000.
What do I think? I reckon going forward diamond league 3k and 5 k will see a revolving door of winners.
I think Almaz will retire with possibly three world records. The 10k the half and the marathon. Ironically the one which may elude her is the one she chased so hard last year. The 5!
You just have to look at Almaz run, her biomechanics, her efficiency, her rhythm to know she is an athlete for the ages. My wife who knows nothing about running hit the nail on the head whilst watching her destroy the field in London - she said "oh my god she is effortless and makes everyone else look clumsy"
I agree with pretty much everything you stated.
Except this: "Experiencing the same "double up in a week" issues that Almaz did at the WC"
why is this excuse being used with this Girl? This is what is so mind boggling to me. Prior to the WC, she hadn't done any races. Now she got tired off of one 10,000m race, and was given a week to race?
In 2012, when T Dibaba went out in the Olympics to win her second olympic double, she lost the 5000m to Defar similar to how Ayana lost to Obiri. Defar went past dibaba with like 300m to go. No one said anything about Dibaba being tired. It was just a battle for the ages, and the best runner won.
But now after rio and the WC, ayana wasn't on fresh legs! That's all I keep hearing. None of those excuses were every stated or used for Viv or TB. But since Ayana got her arse handed to her in back to back big races, she must have been tired.
I must be in the twilight zone.
She threw the race to keep me from moving up in the fantasy diamond race, I think.
Im certainly not excusing Almaz, it is public record that she has lost every 5k subsequent to running the 10k. - I agree fully that this is her Achilles heel. You are 100% correct about Vivians outstanding performance in Rio. I was very annoyed she didnt get the acknowledgement she deserved and race reports seemed to indicate Almaz had lost the race instead of Vivian winning it. The way she completed the last two laps of the 5 in rio were mind blowing and she thoroughly deserved her victory.
scorpion_runner wrote:
Oh yeah, one more thing. You know that 10000m rio race, where ayana broke the record.
I believe she ran 29:17, and the record was 29:30.
Guess what? Vivian ran that same race, and she ran 29:32, just missing going under 29:30 herself.
Guess what again? Vivian had to run that 5000m race after running the 10000m race, too
Guess what one more time? Vivian destroyed Ayana on tired legs, just like ayana was on SO CALLED TIRED LEGS.
STOP WITH THE EXCUSES.
Nailed it!
scorpion_runner wrote:
Guess what? Vivian ran that same race, and she ran 29:32, just missing going under 29:30 herself. Guess what again? Vivian had to run that 5000m race after running the 10000m race, too Guess what one more time? Vivian destroyed Ayana on tired legs, just like ayana was on SO CALLED TIRED LEGS.
Guess what again? Vivian didn't show up this year and Ayana won the 10k AGAIN, on so called tired legs, and then got silver in the 5k AGAIN, on so called tired legs. TWO GOLDS, TWO SILVERS!
STOP WITH THE EXCUSES, AGAIN AND AGAIN!
The difference between Obiri's WC run and her DL race is of two entirely different runners. Fatigue doesn't explain it - as Hassan showed absolutely no signs of it after her own WC efforts - but cycling down does. Obiri is Kenyan, today's East Germans.
scorpion_runner wrote:
Juiced2thegills wrote:I was comparing Hassan with Obiri, not Ayana. Hassan doubled the 1500/5k in London, Obiri ran only the latter. Hassan destroyed Obiri at the finish of the 3k DL and was fresh as a daisy. So why should Obiri have been so fatigued when Hassan clearly wasn't?
Who was fresh as a daisy? Obiri peaked at the WC. Hassan ran hard in a 1500m race, but didn't go hard in the 5000m race. She was pretty much tempo running out there, because the race was over once obiri and ayana went out. So Obiri destroyed Hassan in a race that mattered by 3 pool lengths, but then goes in a DL event that does not matter and loses down the stretch.
Is that something you really want to argue?
Kid running after kipchoge wrote:
How from 14:18 and declaring WR shape in the 5k she ran 4th place 8:30???
By the way Hassan has the most irritating form I've ever seen. She looks like a big spider on the track with that form.
It's called post World Championships hangover. Track and Field is one of the few sports that continues its season after they have their version of the Super Bowl. I don't pay attention to any of these races after the World Championships. Zurich might be a decent track meet. But the track and field season ended on the last day of the World Championships.
Kid running after kipchoge wrote:
What a lame excuse. 5k isn't a marathon, you don't need to choose a date to be at your peak. You can stay in a peak 5k shape for months.
Spoken like someone who's never actually peaked properly. Same goes for your post about how no one should be tired a week after a 10K race. Only someone who has never touched their ultimate limits in a 10K race would say that.