Bosse an Kszot, slowest in pure speed over 400

Learn about the benefits of even splits because of this? Ha!

No one learned from Dave Wottles gold in 73, with perfectly eben splits, so its doubtful.

Kszczot (henceforth known as The Pole!) lost the race because he was far too far back when Bosse made his move - in a race that was less than blindingly fast. How much ground did he have to make up in the last 150? What made him think he could do this without the leader really fading in the last 100? In a major championship you have to expect a very high level of fitness from your opponents, at least the same level as yours.

The same criticism should be directed at Langford - but the young Brit does at least have the excuse of inexperience at this level.

Was the 800 the weakest (men's) event so far? Too many athletes ignorant of how to handle any sort of race other than a paced DL affair?

mark b wrote:

Kszczot (henceforth known as The Pole!) lost the race because he was far too far back when Bosse made his move - in a race that was less than blindingly fast. How much ground did he have to make up in the last 150? What made him think he could do this without the leader really fading in the last 100? In a major championship you have to expect a very high level of fitness from your opponents, at least the same level as yours.

The same criticism should be directed at Langford - but the young Brit does at least have the excuse of inexperience at this level.

Was the 800 the weakest (men's) event so far? Too many athletes ignorant of how to handle any sort of race other than a paced DL affair?

Kszczot lost the race because Bosse was better than him. Let's not over complicate it.

Bosse has a PR of 1:42.53 form 2014

Kszczot has a PR of 1:43.30 from 2011

Bosse has run faster than Kszczot every year.

There is no tactic to beat a better runner that runs a good race.

Bosse is faster and ran a good race. Kszczot could not beat him.

Star wrote:

There is no tactic to beat a better runner that runs a good race.

Bosse is faster and ran a good race. Kszczot could not beat him.

It must be noted that PAB mentioned yesterday on French TV that he felt animosity 200m from the finish, confirming what everyone here knows: a successful 800m is run on pure hate.

French people do seem carry more hate that the Polish.

But Bosse did have one of my favorites celebrations.

Pointing at himself with an expression of "Me?" "I am the World Champion?"

Bosse told Patrick Montel and Diagana that it his now his duty to continue until 2024, since Paris has been awarded the O.G. that year, but he will be 32 years old by then. A tall order to maintain form until then. In interviews, Bosse often makes reference to his cat. France, btw., is the country with the largest number of pets, and a recent survey showed that 40 percent of French prefer their pets compared with humans.

K

Solid troll post, O.P.

By any objective measure, a 46.X by Kszcot with no starting blocks and no specific quarter training is considered world-class speed and is more speed than necessary for a 1:44 800m.

If you want to talk about 800m runners who would struggle to run 48-low, let's talk about Nick Symmonds.

Wrong as usual:Nick Symmonds ran 47.45 in Dublin 7/25/2012 shortly before breaking 1:43 in London behind Rudisha.

jamin wrote:

Solid troll post, O.P.

By any objective measure, a 46.X by Kszcot with no starting blocks and no specific quarter training is considered world-class speed and is more speed than necessary for a 1:44 800m.

If you want to talk about 800m runners who would struggle to run 48-low, let's talk about Nick Symmonds.

Can the moderators please inform me why my last post has been removed?

I don't recall it contravening any board rules!?

Did Symmonds use starting blocks in that 47.45?

exthrower wrote:

The 800 is a blend of speed and endurance...Tilting towards one or the other can win it, depending on the particular race.

Great post, well done exthrower, full of wisdom as always.

Deanouk wrote:

Can the moderators please inform me why my last post has been removed?

I don't recall it contravening any board rules!?

They are sensitive at the moment, Jager was meant to win and they're still crying into their beers.

xcvxcvxcvx wrote:

Wrong as usual:

Nick Symmonds ran 47.45 in Dublin 7/25/2012 shortly before breaking 1:43 in London behind Rudisha.

jamin wrote:

Solid troll post, O.P.

By any objective measure, a 46.X by Kszcot with no starting blocks and no specific quarter training is considered world-class speed and is more speed than necessary for a 1:44 800m.

If you want to talk about 800m runners who would struggle to run 48-low, let's talk about Nick Symmonds.

I stand corrected

BlimeyMate wrote:Learn about the benefits of even splits because of this? Ha!

there is no benefit

they only crop up in tactical runs not circuit races

No one learned from Dave Wottles gold in 73, with perfectly eben splits, so its doubtful

that run has so much nonsense mythology attached to it

wottle ran with even/- ve splits because he picked up an injury after trials & was nowhere in trials shape & had to take it out easy

he has alluded he woud no way have let the gap to the leader have grown so much if his ?hamstring had been 100% & wouda stayed right up near the lead & kicked off the ruskie's shoulder

as for trials, wottle's huge -ve split WR run was a "forced" effort which he said was "all down to Jim Ryun"

it started as tactical race as usual to bell & then Ryun put in biggest kick ever between 400 - 500 of 11.6 !!!

this strung out the field & forced wottle to run the race of his life to get near to Ryun, who's stoopid kick off no serious 800 in 4y & well past his peak cost him & he just missed out on 3rd by a dip in 1'45-low/mid to wottle's 1'44.3

Ryun's poor tactics/inexperience cost him hugely, because to kick an 11.6 at 400 & still hold on for 1'45-low/mid is indicative of a guy who with ideal 2s +ve splits is form for 1'42-mid

if Ryun had just cruised around & kicked off final bend, it is guaranteed he wouda got top-3 & likely won & wouda been huge favorite for gold in '72 even if wottle was 100% fit : 1'42.5 v 1'43.25

wottle's -ve spit 1'44.3 converted to 2s +ve split i got as 1'43-low with a formula i use, which is exactly what author of wr progression book, hymans said

~"in fast paced race, wottle's WR run coud have been 1'43+"

xcvxcvxcvx wrote:

Nick Symmonds ran 47.45 in Dublin 7/25/2012 shortly before breaking 1:43 in London behind Rudisha

even moreso, this was some time before london & nick virtually certainly in heavy training

he said at the time that

~ "i expect to be in quicker 400 shape in games"

which means he expected his 400 shape to be at peak probably dipping into 46s

JRinaldi wrote:

Did Symmonds use starting blocks in that 47.45?

no

he stood bolt upright at start !!!

i've seen the vid, which shoud still be out there

it was in dublin which you can guarantee was windy & probably cold even in summer, so nowhere near to ideal 400 conditions

i'd imagine a stand-up start & no use of blocks wouda just in itself cost coupla tenths, so that gets him down to 47-low & without poor conditions at worst a 46-high

then factor in that this was run in virtually certain heavy training & not adequately rested & also he stated he expected to be quicker for speed in games & his 400 in games wouda been likely

~ 46-low/mid

nick ran like a puussy in games, so far back he lost all chance of a medal despite endlessly talked about charge in last 200

if he'd had the balls to run a 2s +ve split race that day like medalists, that 1'42.95 of his wouda been

~ 1'42-low/mid

& winning bronze...

calculo wrote:

nick ran like a puussy in games, so far back he lost all chance of a medal despite endlessly talked about charge in last 200

if he'd had the balls to run a 2s +ve split race that day like medalists, that 1'42.95 of his wouda been

~ 1'42-low/mid

& winning bronze...

correction, official splits in handbook show he did run 2s +ve splits of 50.5/52.5 !

however, not going out fast enough meant he got no drafting on 1st lap as too far back, albeit some drafting on 2nd lap, ran perhaps 1.0m extra on final bend & looked to have started his charge too late as he was finishing like a bull-rhino !!!

he shouda run ~ 1'42-mid, just about there with Kiptum

shouda "kicked" from 200 - 250 out & not waited to end of last bend

agip wrote:

I'll never understand why more people don't try to even split or run less positive split 800s.

seems a no brainer that if you are a 1:44 guy...you don't go out in 50 seconds. If you do, you will die the last 150.

but that's not how 800 guys think, for the most part. Maybe bosse's win will change that.

Why would Bosse's win change the positive split theory?

From LRC's article on his win:

"Bosse's unofficial splits were 24.4, 27.0, 26.3, and 27.0."

That makes a 1.9-second positive split.