Ranking WI collegiate distance programs

I graduated from the MU program a couple years ago and rarely post on these boards but with the amount of #fakenews floating around I couldn't sit idly by. Is Marquette the best distance program in WI? Obviously not. Is Mike Nelson the best coach? No, but in my experience he has never claimed to be. The above posts are starting to cross the line past the intention of this thread and into the personal vendetta of someone who is doing a poor job at hiding both their bias and proximity to the team. I've obviously biased myself, but I wanted to share my first-hand experience with the team and university for what it's worth.

Let's look at the numbers. The Marquette men, after going unranked in 2016, turned in a 13/30 performance at the great lakes region while beating the likes of several respected programs. Keep in mind those are 30 division 1 programs. I will be the first to say improvements are needed for sure, but any ranked team deserves some degree of respect. To counter the point about racing guys in the 1000 and 4x8, Nelson puts them there because they have the best chance of scoring TEAM points in those events. And they have with podium finishes in both indoor and outdoor. The big east is loaded with international talent in any event 1500+. Guys are happy to race any event which helps the team, even at the expense of their specialty.

No, Mike Nelson is not the best coach in the world but he isn't a bad coach either. If blame is needed I would look to the administration first. As far as I know, the administration refuses to give him any assistant coaches which means he is personally responsible for the training of 40 athletes racing 5 different events. That is certainly not the case at Wisconsin where they have a mens coach, a womens coach, and assistants to spare. Give the man a reasonable workload before assessing his ability as a coach.

With regards to the team being not being motivated, that is simply false. My experience on the team was definitely positive. I grew as a runner and met some of the most quality guys on campus. Keep in mind these are college kids we are talking about. If you feel the need to call out a 20 year old kid online you need to find a new hobby. Marquette is different from some division 1 state schools in that the athletes aren't just numbers. An unexpected injury or poor season doesn't get an athlete immediately cut from the team. I realize some may disagree with that philosophy but take it as you will. Shit happens.

For the father asking about the university, outside of just the team, MU has a strong sense of family and identity. I have had a great experience with their alumni network in particular. As a small university with a strong identity, alumni and current students alike tend to look out for each other. If you are a parent or prospective student-athlete interested in the university I would encourage you to visit for yourself to determine if it is the right fit. As a distance program they don't rival the Badgers but that doesn't mean they don't still have a lot to offer.

WI anon wrote:

He commonly places his best athletes in 1000s and 4x800s at the conference meets to maximize their point total and not seeing the overall bigger picture. He dodges the competition to help meet his own thresholds and incentives with inflated point totals. Like when they put Alec Miller in the 1000.

You forget that Nelson is not the head track and field coach. Some guy named Rogers is. Therefore, what events Nelson's athletes run in at the Big East Championships is not his decision to make, but Rogers'. The head coach is obviously going to make the decision that is going to maximize the point total and give the team the best chance to win, especially since he is not the XC coach and the "big picture" there is really none of his concern. You cannot fault a coach for trying to win.

I am a high school senior and looking at schools for next year. I have run 4:26 in the 1600 and want to run in college. I have checked out a few in state team pages and I think I might be able to run D1. I can't find any scholarship requirement times for Marquette and Milwaukee, so my question is what kind of times does it take to earn a scholarship? Thanks for the help.

Aspiring D1 wrote:

I am a high school senior and looking at schools for next year. I have run 4:26 in the 1600 and want to run in college. I have checked out a few in state team pages and I think I might be able to run D1. I can't find any scholarship requirement times for Marquette and Milwaukee, so my question is what kind of times does it take to earn a scholarship? Thanks for the help.

I have a pretty good friend that goes to Marquette. He ran 4:19 as a junior, but I don't think he got any scholarship money. If he did at all, it was 10% or books or something like that. Not much. Reason is that Marquette is more of a track school than XC, since they can win the Big East in track but are very, very far away from doing so in XC. I'd imagine almost all of their scholarship money goes to sprinters and field events.

However, if you look around, there are absolutly coaches out there that will give some scholarship to 4:26. Mid 4:20s guys become productive college runners all the time.

There are several things at play here in regards to why things have settled out this way. But the gap between 2-10 in the state is not as large as some of you would like to believe.

The WIAC schools are really good because the coaching is top notch. All the head coaches and their respective staffs are die hard track nerds, and they care a lot about the kids they coach. They turn a lot of mediocre guys into respectable athletes. Their passion, knowledge, and personal skills win over mild DI talent level guys. The WIAC culture is also boosted by a lot of high school coaches who went to those schools, so they advise their athletes to either go to wisco or go to their alma mater. Plus if you decide to go DIII you are there because you truly love the sport. No incentive from scholarships, big trips to meets, free swag. Kids either run seriously (to the best of their ability) or they just move on.

The non-UW DI schools are so mediocre for the exact opposite reason. The coaching at those schools is so minimal or just plain ineffective. They have scholarships, bigger budgets, better competition, and still they barely compete with the WIAC. The coaching staffs at the DI's are laughable, almost all of them are full of guys who don't even have a USATF Level I, which by the way is extremely easy to attain. The athletes don't respond well at these programs because they don't have to earn anything and because their coaches either don't care or they are idiots.

At Marquette and Milwaukee specifically, the staffs are full of clowns. If both of those programs joined the WIAC tomorrow and had to play by the same rules (no budget/travel/gear/scholarships) they would lose whatever talent they have left and fill it with 4:35 milers (although in some cases they already do this).

All that said, the gap between the DI and DIII programs is actually decently even at the moment (lax, uwec, marq, parkside, uwm, oshkosh and other wiacs)

Bottom line

WIAC schools-- are pretty near maxed out because they have superior coaching (both from actual knowledge, and better personal skills) but the lack of scholarships and budget prevents them from getting top notch talent.

Milwaukee-- Coaching staff is extremely lazy and embarrassingly uneducated in the sport. This program has potential to have the most upside in the future. That future depends on two things: Getting Pete Corfeld to retire, and bring in a real coach.

Marquette-- Coaching staff has no passion or drive to get better, they get some talent but never develop it into anything. Mike Nelson is not going to leave anytime soon, so the program will continue to suffer for another 10+ years.

Parkside-- Keep an eye on this program, they have a really good young coach who has already shown he can turn his talent into results. However, Kenosha is a hole and they don't have a strong history to recruit on...

Anyone else have any additional insights?

Dude, shove it with the Marquette vs. Milwaukee comparisons. Nelson is a great coach. He gets way better recruits and performances out of his athletes than Corfeld. All of Milwaukees distance school records are sad. Most of those records are held by guys who transferred in, meaning Corfeld couldn't get them the first time around. Like how much coaching do you think Corfeld did to help out Cornelius Hill or Marcus Paulson. How about none. Those guys got worse after going to UWM. There isn't a single guy on UWM's current roster who could make Marquette's top 7, much less than garbage D3 team on the Mississippi River.

Garbage D3 team on the Mississippi? La Crosse? Thomas Schultz would easily make Marquette's top 7. Maybe even top 3. That kid's a great runner, and he's not only great runner on LAX.

Sorry to chime in here. But North Central men's XC beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. And Benedictine Men's Track beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. So Wisconsin isn't the only one with great D3 programs.

Booom! wrote:

Sorry to chime in here. But North Central men's XC beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. And Benedictine Men's Track beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. So Wisconsin isn't the only one with great D3 programs.

This is so laughable. Illinois, Bradley, EIU, and ISU are significantly better than North Central. And as far as it goes about LAX, there top guy was 67th at D3 nationals, that guy wouldn't make Marquette's top 7. You D3 fanboys are so delusional.

We Are Marquette wrote:

Booom! wrote:

Sorry to chime in here. But North Central men's XC beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. And Benedictine Men's Track beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. So Wisconsin isn't the only one with great D3 programs.

This is so laughable. Illinois, Bradley, EIU, and ISU are significantly better than North Central. And as far as it goes about LAX, there top guy was 67th at D3 nationals, that guy wouldn't make Marquette's top 7. You D3 fanboys are so delusional.

I am proud to announce that no Marquette Men's steeplechasers would have qualified for the IAAF womens steeplechase final.

We Are Marquette wrote:

This is so laughable. Illinois, Bradley, EIU, and ISU are significantly better than North Central. And as far as it goes about LAX, there top guy was 67th at D3 nationals, that guy wouldn't make Marquette's top 7. You D3 fanboys are so delusional.

Isn't that more an indictment of how far down the totem pole Marquette would be if they ever ran against good DIII programs?

That guy finishing 67th in DIIIs has a better 10k time than the entire Marquette team, and a better 5k time than all but 1 Marquette athlete. LAX posted better top performers (and depth) in the 800, 5k, 10k, steeple, and DMR while Marquette had a better 1500 runner (with LAX having better depth at that event as well). In fact, there's only 1 athlete on the entire Marquette Mid/Long distance roster who would even qualify for DIII Track nationals.

We Are Marquette wrote:

Nelson is a great coach. He gets way better recruits and performances out of his athletes than Corfeld.

So I took a shit yesterday that was more brown than the shit I took today.

Yesterday = UWM

Today = Marquette

MU vs UWM wrote:

We Are Marquette wrote:

Nelson is a great coach. He gets way better recruits and performances out of his athletes than Corfeld.

So I took a shit yesterday that was more brown than the shit I took today.

Yesterday = UWM

Today = Marquette

This is a decent, not stellar recruiting class for MU. For a Big East school, it's really pretty weak, but compared to what they have been bringing in lately, it's a step forward. Somewhat surprised that they got zero in staters for XC.

Does anyone know what other schools are bringing in for this fall? I can't say for sure, but I think this MU class is likely better than any other school in the state not named University of Wisconsin Madison.

One runner under 4:20 and no runners under 9:20, they'll be contending in no time!!!1

We Are Marquette wrote:

Booom! wrote:

Sorry to chime in here. But North Central men's XC beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. And Benedictine Men's Track beats out all of the D1 programs in Illinois. So Wisconsin isn't the only one with great D3 programs.

This is so laughable. Illinois, Bradley, EIU, and ISU are significantly better than North Central. And as far as it goes about LAX, there top guy was 67th at D3 nationals, that guy wouldn't make Marquette's top 7. You D3 fanboys are so delusional.

1.) That 67th guy is Schultz. It was mentioned that his 30:12 10k is better than Marquette's entire team. This is true.

2.) DIII nats was probably Schultz' worst race of the year. He still ran 25:14 at Tom Sawyer Park. Marquette ran at Tom Sawyer Park in late Septemer/early October. Number of runners sub 25:15? ONE! Alec Miller at 25:10. Even on his worst day, Schultz is every bit as good as Marquette's best guys.

bigboi wrote:

One runner under 4:20 and no runners under 9:20, they'll be contending in no time!!!1

I'm there defense, it was 2 sub 4:20 guys, which still isn't a quality recruiting class for a Big East school, but what other school in the state (not the badgers) is even getting this much of a class?

The Starved Elephant wrote:

We Are Marquette wrote:

This is so laughable. Illinois, Bradley, EIU, and ISU are significantly better than North Central. And as far as it goes about LAX, there top guy was 67th at D3 nationals, that guy wouldn't make Marquette's top 7. You D3 fanboys are so delusional.

1.) That 67th guy is Schultz. It was mentioned that his 30:12 10k is better than Marquette's entire team. This is true.

2.) DIII nats was probably Schultz' worst race of the year. He still ran 25:14 at Tom Sawyer Park. Marquette ran at Tom Sawyer Park in late Septemer/early October. Number of runners sub 25:15? ONE! Alec Miller at 25:10. Even on his worst day, Schultz is every bit as good as Marquette's best guys.

Tapered and ready for the most important race of their season versus a muddy race in the rain that was 6 weeks before regionals? You're really gonna argue that Schultz who by the way went backwards pretty significantly this past year (14:34 to 14:43 and 30:12 to 30:43, dnf at last chance meet) would make MU's top 7?? It takes a lot more to be a Golden Eagle than a D3 Eagle.

We are Marquette wrote:

The Starved Elephant wrote:

1.) That 67th guy is Schultz. It was mentioned that his 30:12 10k is better than Marquette's entire team. This is true.

2.) DIII nats was probably Schultz' worst race of the year. He still ran 25:14 at Tom Sawyer Park. Marquette ran at Tom Sawyer Park in late Septemer/early October. Number of runners sub 25:15? ONE! Alec Miller at 25:10. Even on his worst day, Schultz is every bit as good as Marquette's best guys.

Tapered and ready for the most important race of their season versus a muddy race in the rain that was 6 weeks before regionals? You're really gonna argue that Schultz who by the way went backwards pretty significantly this past year (14:34 to 14:43 and 30:12 to 30:43, dnf at last chance meet) would make MU's top 7?? It takes a lot more to be a Golden Eagle than a D3 Eagle.

The best 10k PR on Marquette's roster is 31:47.17 (lol), so even if he only ran 30:43 and 14:43 he'd still be the best 10k runner and 2nd best 5k runner on the roster. In fact that 30:43 would be the fastest Marquette 10k since 2013. Easily top 7, likely top 3 in xc.

So

We are Marquette wrote:

Tapered and ready for the most important race of their season versus a muddy race in the rain that was 6 weeks before regionals? You're really gonna argue that Schultz who by the way went backwards pretty significantly this past year (14:34 to 14:43 and 30:12 to 30:43, dnf at last chance meet) would make MU's top 7?? It takes a lot more to be a Golden Eagle than a D3 Eagle.

And yet this guy, going backwards, did better than the entire Marquette roster on the Track for 10k, and 2nd best in the 5k, on a down year. You're really just putting down your own team more and more.

UW-Platteville was at that meet, and Marquette's average time was 11 seconds better than Platteville. LAX averaged beating Platteville by 20+ seconds several times over the year, and Eu Claire about 30s.

Make all the excuses you want about different times of the season/courses in XC. On the track, last year and every year for 5+ years, LAX and Eu Claire dominate Marquette's top times for 800m and up.