Wales-Dinan out from Harvard at end of month

No thanks Judge Wapner. Those involved have provided specifics to the appropriate people at Harvard who have made a decision. No one owes you anything. Thanks so much though for offering to determine who is "fit to live in society".

Real clever screen name by the way.You put the Algonquin Round Table to shame. And one more time: there are no athletic scholarships at Harvard. Maybe you should write that down somewhere so you remember.

Those involved have provided specifics to the appropriate people at Harvard who have made a decision. No one owes you anything.

Good, people at Harvard made a decision. I also recall a scenario in which a team got punished for having a list of who they thought the girls team would ask to a dance. So excuse my reluctance to accept that the reason the coach is no longer there is because his actions were completely out of control.

No one owes me anything, great. What's the point of coming here and vaguely dragging this guy through the mud then? If you really want anyone to know how evil he is, why is no one saying what he did without making everyone guess? It's because these 'athletes' are drama queens, isn't it? Sad face. I truly fear for your generation and will be raising my daughter to be the exact opposite of you. Shame on your parents, really, raising a group that can't cope with anything slightly resembling hardship.

I'll try to keep track of the scholarship thing.

Alex P Keaton's Left Nut wrote:

So excuse my reluctance to accept that the reason the coach is no longer there is because his actions were completely out of control.

The guy was told to move along, read: fired. You want to believe that he did nothing wrong, because, why? You admit you have no facts about what was going on, but in your tiny mind, when someone is fired, until proven otherwise to you, the fired person must have done nothing wrong? Wow. That's really dumb. Normally, for non-idiots, the fall back decision when you don't know all the facts, is to assume he was fired for a reason and he likely did do something to deserve being removed.

I know you are an idiot so this will be hard for you understand, but, you need to accept that as an idiot your stupidity will predominantly shape all of your opinions, making your opinions stupid. If you remember that, you may want to voice your opinions less often, as it just outs you as an idiot. In silence you can hide your stupidity.

Oh I have no doubt he was fired. My curiosity is whether he was fired because he

-forced girls into eating disorders and unhealthy weights or if he was fired for

-mentioning that if you keep your non-essential mass as low as safely possible, you can benefit in distance running (which was in turn blown out of proportion by drama queens and gave the university no choice vs facing internet backlash for not catering to every person's needs).

Or somewhere in between.

I do appreciate the attacks on my intelligence though, it makes a great case for your point, keep up the good work. 10/10

To your assumption that I 'assumed he did nothing wrong' - I gotta say, if you read anything I've typed you'd notice that I LEAN towards the reality being that there are a handful of whiny, emotionally unfit females leading this charge against the coach. I've not assumed anything, but based on the tactics and lack of information that's what it looks like. Fully capable of changing my lean on it, I'd just like to know specifics before I get my pitchfork out, that's all.

Enjoy your life of finding new and inventive ways to ensure you're the victim of something, I'm sure it will work out for you.

Shadow Lurker wrote:

Except Letsrun isn't a court of law...

Nor is it an HR Department at Harvard.

In other words, on this matter, we are gossips. As such, we aren't entitled to inside information or "the" truth. We have to rely on speculation. That is a big part of why gossip is condemned.

I'm sorry. For "gossip" read, "self-righteous internet vigilante."

Or maybe that should be "entitled, self-righteous internet vigilante."

I love how someone with less information and less responsibility is certain he can find the truth.

byebyepat wrote:

From what I've heard, Phelan is beloved by all of the Harvard mens distance runners and well liked by all of the staff. Given his time already spent with the team, hiring him as a coach would not only minimize transitional hiccups (he's already established in the program and trusted by the team members) but also restore some confidence in a program rocked by controversy.

I ran at a rival high school in the same league that as Coach Phelan and at another Ivy as well (although I never overlapped with Phelan in that stretch). As you can tell from the boards already, I've never heard anyone give him anything but praise and respect. He'd be a great choice if he wants it.

It should be noted that at L-S, he was the girl's head coach and developed strong programs where girls performed, improved, and stayed healthy over four years. I'm friends with several of his former athletes (many of whom went on to have great college careers- another sign of good sustainable coaching) and they all loved him as well. His record is the perfect counterargument to the premise that "committed" and "elite" are not synonymous with unhealthy behaviors and that you can succeed on a high level without alienating or injuring half your runners.

asdfasdf wrote:

The video can't hold much weight, because the guy is touchy feely in his coaches with men as well as women, as you can see in this coaching video.

http://coachjayjohnson.com/general-strength-with-patrick-wales-dinan/

A switch-hitting coach is just as inappropriate.

You can watch a version of the video that was cached by google by searching for "general strength with patrick wales dinan." Google then allows you to view the cached web page. It has the link to the video. Quite creepy. Lots of touching! On the face of it, it wouldn't look terrible. In retrospect, looks bad.

^ Q: are you now finished blathering???

Still a lot of work to do around body and food shaming and equating "being thin" to "level of commitment."

It's around even at the DIII level.

I have a friend at a NESCAC school and her coach is horrible with it. Then the coaches wonder why eating disorders and stress fractures enter their athletes lives.

asdfasdf wrote:

The video can't hold much weight, because the guy is touchy feely in his coaches with men as well as women, as you can see in this coaching video.

Ok. So. By your logic, "If he does {X} with both sexes it is not a problem."

If he is consistent in his behavior it is not a problem.

He can do what he wants regardless of professional standards of conduct, and as long as he is consistent, it is not a problem.

A coach's individual decision making about what is professional or acceptable behavior trumps collectively agreed-upon standards of behavior between superiors and underlings (coaches and athletes, instructors and pupils).

No problem here. Move along.

Hey Your Honor, do what you like with your own daughter, poor kid. But "shame on my parents"? They've been dead for years. Because I've been out of college for years.

Since you are apparently a sitcom fan, may I remind you of the words of the great Felix Unger:

Never assume. For then you make an ass of you and me.

Order in the Court!

I have an idea about what you should do with your pitchfork.

...but look for patterns.

One criticism is that you and the coach reinforced each others' behavior when it came to berating athletes for "not being tough enough." If that is true, you should examine yourself and work towards making positive changes in your attitude and outlook. All the current exercise physiology research shows the effectiveness of a balanced work/recovery approach along with the importance of maintaining emotional and psychological well-being. You should purchase a copy of Steve Magness and Brad Stulberg's new book "Peak Performance." Talk to David Epstein about how elite Kenyan marathoners are doing 4 easy days to every hard day. Sounds like you are stuck in the old macho, jockular high school coaching mindset of the 50s-80s. You need to get current or you'll get left behind. Truth be told, Harvard's XC and track programs suck. Time for a thorough evaluation and overhaul.

Thanks for your self-promotion, Steve. How many more days do you have left at Houston?

Come On Man wrote:

Thanks for your self-promotion, Steve. How many more days do you have left at Houston?

I'm not Steve, nor am I any of the two other people mentioned. Now that I think about it, Magness would be the perfect coach for Harvard but I would want him as both director and coach.

A good rule of thumb I like to use is:

Would the coaches be upset if I got on the bus with ice cream after a meet?

If yes, the culture is likely too restrictive.

asdfasdfasf wrote:

A good rule of thumb I like to use is:

Would the coaches be upset if I got on the bus with ice cream after a meet?

If yes, the culture is likely too restrictive.

Very cool, I like that. The "Ice Cream Test."