Jack Foster's training

I'm sorry. Hope this isn't a disappointment. Jack pretty much laid out what Kim wrote. Neil talked about keeping the mileage about 70 miles a week. Neil felt at my age at the time no more than say 8 miles easy 12 miles on the hard days. Both emphasized the importance of quality rather than quantity in mileage.I specifically asked about doing a schedule of 100 miles per week and both were strongly opposed, both felt it was better to build up to that through my college years.They were talking long tempo runs, (long before the term was coined) with brief rest periods. Both emphasized the marathon is a long term project and to be consistent and patient. No secret formula just know your body hard training. That's the basic crux of it,as I can recall. Unfortunately all my notes, T&FNs from that period were lost in a house fire.

Kim,

That's what I was going to post. Thanks for saving me some time. I believe that Jack also gave Joe Henderson a sample for "Road Racers and Their Training." Maybe I'll dig that out. Much shorter.

No disappointment at all. This entire thread is great! Keep the stories and information coming! It is much appreciated.

HRE, Found what you were referring to. Hope Henderson doesn't mind.

Training Plan: Pretty casual. Ran after each work day, mostly cross country farmlands and forest trails, very hilly. Ran on a horse-race track one day most weeks, anything from three to 10 one mile reps, pretty quick, 4;50ish with half mile jog recovery. This and long Sunday run of 1.5 to 2.5 hours would be the key elements I guess.

Sample Week Of about 70 miles.

Sunday: 1.5 to 2.5 hours on farmlands, forest trails and/or roads.

Monday: Easy 30 to 45 minuteson grass parkland.

Tuesday: 60 - 75 minuteson farmland or one milereps on horse track.

Wednesday: easy 30 - 45 minuteson grass parkland.

Thursday; 60 - 75 on farmlands

Friday rest

Saturday: usually a club race: two to five mileroad run, seven mile cross countryor road relay.

Favorite workout; Mile repson horse race track , because it was something different.

(Score:5, Informative)

I'd like to keep this thread going. It has a lot of life left.

Another thought came to mind as I looked over this thread and some in the archives on Jack. I couldn't help but wonder how much Jack's backround of cycling might have helped him. There are physiologists who I'm sure argue that it's apples and oranges and you only develop certain specific mitochondria, blah, blah, blah. Maybe they're right, I don't know. Is it possible that even though they are technically different sports, Jack was able to build some sort of base earlier in his life that somehow carried over to running? Thoughts anyone?

Short answer ! Yes !. Also the last 20 years he really spent more time on the bike than he did running

Seeing you mention Obhori's.

Last year after Jack had died, I was out at his house paying my respects. (Jack lay in state at home).

Terry Manners was there and we told Jack "Stories".

Terry mentioned that Jack had been given the Obhoris (I believe it was that model) but found his feet overheated in them so cut holes in them for ventilation. When Tiger saw what he had done they then manufactured the shoes complete with ventilation holes. Hence a Foster innovation.

Regarding tongues being cut out of shoes, that was a relatively common practie amongst runners here as they tried to modify shoes to suit themselves.

Hi JR, Seniors Track Club, right?

I remembered one other thing Jack said after our run:

One of us commented that he must have some special talent, to run such fast marathons on such low mileage. (Our group had 50 year old guys running 100mpw trying to break 3:30.) Jack agreed, but was a bit wistful, saying that if he had started running at a younger age, he could have been a 5k/10k guy. It was clear that he meant a) he would have preferred this, and b) he felt a younger JF could have been better at those distances.

bump

Man I miss those Tiger Marathons, will ASCIS bring them back? Probably the best and simplest flats ever made.

Right on! My thinking is this. I've been running continually for about 15 months now and am currently averaging about 50 miles per week. Every time I try to up the mileage to 60 miles/week or more my body gives me a warning sign and I have to cut it back. Maybe I can sneak some extra volume in by throwing in some easy long biking on top of my current training!? Let the 100 mile weeks come to me when I'm ready.

Bottom line : If I could go out and run 10 miles in the morining and another 10 at night I'd do it right now! My body won't let me yet so I need to find a simulation.

BPD wrote:

Right on! My thinking is this. I've been running continually for about 15 months now and am currently averaging about 50 miles per week. Every time I try to up the mileage to 60 miles/week or more my body gives me a warning sign and I have to cut it back. Maybe I can sneak some extra volume in by throwing in some easy long biking on top of my current training!? Let the 100 mile weeks come to me when I'm ready.

Bottom line : If I could go out and run 10 miles in the morining and another 10 at night I'd do it right now! My body won't let me yet so I need to find a simulation.

Introduce yourself to a stairmaster. Build up to 50% of each. You will get the aerobic benefit of an extra run without the pounding and injuries. That will allow you to build running mileage when you are ready. If you overdo running, you will also be more inclined to take a couple running days off to let the injury heal knowing you can replace the workout on the stairmaster.

Mr. Cripple- Why do you suggest the stairmaster over cycling? Mucscle groups used/ what? Please go on.

I have heard Jack intimate the same, although I don't know why, He was lethal over 12k of Cross Country and clocked up great runs in Shorter Cross Country and Road races.

One of the best runs I saw him do was the last lap of a Road Relay here in Rotorua. It was 10.6 km. He clocked 29:36 if my memory serves me right. (Last 5km slightly downhill)

The main reason I mention that run is the club I ran for was leading that race (I had earlier run a 4km uphill lap)

by something like 2 minutes. Our last runner was a 3:45 1500m man and someone well known to Jack. We knew Jack would take time out of our guy, but what we did not expect was an almost complete annihilation. Our guy scrapped home with literally seconds to spare from a hard charging Jack.

I feel that in retropect that run was almost as good as his Onehunga - Auckland run (this one was a year before)

In mentioning that race reminds me that I have to mention the next days Training run. Another Foster epic, but I have an appointment so will post it later.

Apologies.

I remember the Tiger marathon shoe. What model out there now most closely resembles the 'marathon'? If memory serves me right they had the blue ones for a long time, then came out with some in red.

I know the die hard exercise physiologist will talk about specificity of exercise. If you want to run faster run.

But I wonder, Cripple if you are like me and very injury prone in the past you start to discouraged with all the start/stops.

So cross training something that Foster was doing at some level probably saved his legs while still recieving cardiovascular and neurophysiological benefits. Some body somewhere has done a study on jt. motion speed at the hip in cycling versus running (ie RPM).

There have been excellent suggestions for complimentary training to running stairmaster, ellipical, nordic track, pool running, biking in and out of saddle to name a few. For those of us "Masters" I would also recommend strength training the legs with heavier weights to mitigate for effects of sacropenia, this will also wake up some of the fast twitch that still exist. Also consider small doses of eccentric exercises carefully applied for strengthening the tendons. I know this is a bit of thread but as another put it Foster was innovative as the biking no doubt was beneficial.

Exercise physiologists like Kenneth H. Cooper developed some sort of formula that worked out that 5 miles of cycling had the cardio equivalent of a mile of running.

Thus, if Jack biked 100 miles a week, that would add 20 miles to his training total of running (70-75MPW) and get him closer to the magic 100. Also his hip muscles and tendons, along with his quads and knee cartilage and ligaments, got good work with no pounding. If he biked on hills anywhere near as extreme as the one's he ran on, then his cardio system got a good cleaning with developing good leg strength.

I have no idea how many miles a run of the mill competitive cyclist trains a week, someone else will have to come up with the numbers.

Thought it was 3 miles mile biking to every mile running?

Doesn't really matter, I think you are right on about the positive benefits.