Sick of anti Nike, NOP, Salazar, Rupp bias on LR

I said several years ago that when Meseret Defar, Tirunesh Dibaba, Mary Keitany, Florence Kiplagat and Vivian Cheruiyot move up to the marathon, if they can't break the world record, then the glove fits for Paula. These legendary athletes have not come within 2 minutes of Paula's time and most of the women who have come close, like Rita Jeptoo and Liliya Shobukhova for example, have been busted for drugs. It is amazing how the Bothers Johnson give Paula a pass, while not one AlSal/NOP athletes has had an off-the-charts unbelievable performance.

Nike/AlSal/NOP has made incredible contributions to our sport, especially USA distance running. However, if they are guilty, they need to be punished, but you should not confuse shades of grey with black or white. We all know what real dope is, it's EPO or anabolic steroids (period); so far, everything that has been published about AlSal/NOP doping appears to be shades of grey.

100% agree. Well said TrackCoach.

TrackCoach wrote:

Nike/AlSal/NOP has made incredible contributions to our sport, especially USA distance running. However, if they are guilty, they need to be punished, but you should not confuse shades of grey with black or white. We all know what real dope is, it's EPO or anabolic steroids (period); so far, everything that has been published about AlSal/NOP doping appears to be shades of grey.

AlSal flirts heavily with the gray area, and it's gotten NOP some serious success. He knows exactly what he's doing and I'm sure talks with doctors to find out what he can get away with. When you've got virtually unlimited resources, why not?

Kosher pickle wrote:

If a girl sleeps with a different guy every week, she should expect to have a reputation of being a slut.

_________________

You ruined an otherwise good post with this. Sleeping with lots of men isn't inherently harmful or unethical. The reputation one gets from doing that is related to moralistic judgments about other people's private behavior.

Using power and wealth to coerce your employees to break the law and risk early death is, as is stealing prize money and accolades from clean athletes.

Most LR posters (never mind the powers that be) are brainwashed cucks. They'll bury their heads in the sand if an E. African is caught doping. How's coach Aden doing? Hell, the LR crowd will bend and spread for coach Aden and any doper who isn't a horrid paleface. The Brojos want to curry favor with the MSM, and that means always taking the anti-white route. This gains favor and at the same time lets one pretend to be courageous while actually kowtowing to the establishment. It's not different than any other politicized element of our society. Just a bunch of cowardly, brainwashed whiteboys. The kind of guys who'll hold hands, light candles, and sing songs after a terrorist attack or after their own mothers have been freight-trained by gangbangers who are blameless POCs. To them.

TrackCoach wrote:

It is amazing how the Bothers Johnson give Paula a pass, while not one AlSal/NOP athletes has had an off-the-charts unbelievable performance.

We all know what real dope is, it's EPO or anabolic steroids (period); so far, everything that has been published about AlSal/NOP doping appears to be shades of grey.

Haha. You guys are literally crazy.

A doctor is performing uncontrolled experiments on humans. Everyone at this point knows and nothing is being​ done. All in the name of sport. Ready to send your kids to Salazar for more experiments?

Whatever Nike pays you guys better be worth it.

NOP is, and has been, the most successful US based distance running group.

Especially if you include Mo as part of that.

When you are successful and on top, you are subject to a higher level of attention and scrutiny.

Rupp, Mo, Centro and even AlSal are essentially distance running celebrities.

The fact that they seemingly get more attention than others is due to their success and status.

Most people in the USA want to see our athletes succeed in international competition. But we want them to do so following all rules and regulations, and in a morally and ethically correct manner. We want them to be role models (whether they like it or not). Fair or not, we hold them to a higher standard.

I see nothing wrong with the amount of attention LRC gives to NOP. NOP deserves the attention (its a compliment). And since LRC is primarily frequented by and about US distance runners, it is normal to give more attention to US based groups and runners. People want to know about star US runners.

And we want our stars to succeed in a clean manner, as role models. If the public attention they LRC and others) for questionable behavior helps them clean up their act even more, its a good thing for everyone.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

It is amazing how the Bothers Johnson give Paula a pass, while not one AlSal/NOP athletes has had an off-the-charts unbelievable performance.

We all know what real dope is, it's EPO or anabolic steroids (period); so far, everything that has been published about AlSal/NOP doping appears to be shades of grey.

Haha. You guys are literally crazy.

A doctor is performing uncontrolled experiments on humans. Everyone at this point knows and nothing is being​ done. All in the name of sport. Ready to send your kids to Salazar for more experiments?

Whatever Nike pays you guys better be worth it.

^This. The Nike shills/fanbois still talk about grey area. Lol. They wish!

What did we read today? "Dr. Jeffrey Stuart Brown, an endocrinologist based in Texas, is accused of violating antidoping rules and colluding with Salazar to cover it up."

However, having said that, the brojos do have a pro-Paula bias just as much as TrackCoach et al. have a pro-NOP/Salazar bias. In fact, there are quite a few parallels (as well as differences of course):

1) Paula had three suspicious tests leaked, two pointing towards blood doping, and one towards EPO usage (the only OOC that we know of),

and

Rupp had one suspicious test leaked (testo), and Centro as well (off-score), and Mo did not open the door to the tester;

2) Paula lied about the circumstances of her tests,

and

the NOPers lied about their infusions;

3) Paula turned all anti-transparency when confronted,

and

so did the NOP athletes;

4) Paula showed late in her career these unbelievable performances,

and

Mo became late in his career basically undefeatable;

5) Paula had Healing Hans with his secret ingredient*,

and

Salazar has Dr. Brown and is experimenting with testo.

*No, this is not Actovegin, which is just as much a smokescreen as Brown's thyroid stuff.

Soldout wrote:

Youhammerhead wrote:

I guess you want 90-95% of the athletes out then? Because that's how many are cheating. Remember, there are countries that don't even have drug testing in place.

I do not buy into the notion that 90-95% of the athletes are cheating. That's ludicrous. But YES I do want all of the cheaters out.

ya, I don't buy it either - it is probably more like 95-97%.

What anti-corruption are talking about? For all the allegations against Salazar. Everything points to Salazar doing what he always and openly said he was going to do with NOP the day it was formed. He was going to take a "science based" approach and use every advantage within the anti doping rules. We'll see what comes of this USADA investigation. It looks he crossed the line But for right now the news we got is a leaked unreleased report. Its reasonable to assume there is a reason it remains unreleased. And its before we hear the defense from the Salazar camp. In 2015 Salazar defended himself pretty well. Let's be honest here. Letsrun posters hate Salazar because he is a total obsessively controlling @hole. I knew someone who worked for Salazar back in the 1980s in the restaurant business. He was brutal to work for then by all accounts. The complaints about him then are eerily similar to what former NOP employees say today. I truly believe that Salazar's practices are just incidental to people wanting to bring Salazar down because they hate him so much. If he was just an easy going guy like Schumacher, but otherwise engaging in the same practices, I really don't think Letsrun.com would be on Salazar like they are.

rojo wrote:

It blows my mind that you think we are anti-nike. Not true. I'm anti-corruption.

Do people complain about our coverage of Jerry Schumacher? No, they do not. Did they complain when I gave a black page to Solinsky for running 2659? Nope.

Let me get this straight, you are made that we featured the fact that the New York Times wrote an article today about Dr. Brown. Really? When the NY Times covers it in our sport, that means it's important. When the NY Times is breaking stories on it, you know it's really important.

Ok Mr trackcoach, so if Keitany, Dibaba do manage to equal or beat the Radcliffe mark, are you going to come on here screaming that theyre doping like crazy too?

Totally agree. How good would NOP be if they didn't have vitamin D deficient, asthmatics, who have thyroid conditions? I mean recruit some healthy athletes, coach them up, and you will beat the world. Instead they have sickly athletes who can't even find a qualified doctor in their own state.

wejo wrote:

Right.....

I currently run and am wearing as I type Nike Pegasus shoes. Great shoes.

.[/quote]

you also have a black friend at the gym

I don't know anything about Salazar as a person but it's evident that some people dislike him. The same could be true of many coaches across sports. What's telling to me is that this offense seems pretty technical and LRC and the posters are not calling Magness or some of the athletes involved dopers. Why? Because they like them better than they like Salazar (except, of course, they don't like Rupp). The same logic explains why they don't look into other elite coaches and athletes working with Dr Brown - it doesn't fit the narrative. They like Solinsky, Goucher, and Wetmore so no questions are asked. And no, I am not a Nike shill. I know no one and have just watched races for a long time.

The usual false dichotomies abound.

Yes, rojo is not operating by impeccable journalistic standards. At the same time I haven't seen him throwing stories into the fray that haven't already been reported elsewhere. He sources what he says. If you don't like his editorial take on something, read the story in the pertinent journalistic entity and draw your own conclusions. The NY Times has an ombudsman and all the right machinery in place to assure that, whatever its slant, it can't print outright bullshit. No one here is beholden to the opinions and ideas that rojo creates from his own reading.

At the same time, if he gets something wrong or jumps the gun, that doesn't mean the whole story collapses. Anyone who thinks there's really nothing to the whole NOP mess that isn't organic to the NOP is deluded. It's as if some of you think there would be no investigation into the program if not for this message board, and that USATF, USADA, the NY Times, Pro Publica, Magness, and all of the former NOP members have all acted on cues from this site.

The NOP is embroiled in serious controversy, and that's putting it mildly, and the powers that be don't do an impeccable job of covering it. They also don't try to dispel dissent or ask anyone to march in lock step with their framing of events. Simple.

Karl Hungus wrote:

AlSal flirts heavily with the gray area, and it's gotten NOP some serious success. He knows exactly what he's doing and I'm sure talks with doctors to find out what he can get away with. When you've got virtually unlimited resources, why not?

This is an astonishingly short-sighted take.

You claim it's no secret that he flirts with cheating (let's just call "the grey area" what it is) and that he also has unlimited resources. Find me a megalomaniac in any sporting discipline in the world whose sole function in life is winning who actually stops shy of outright cheating given these variables.

You think his personal ethics dictate that he doesn't cross that line into outright no-no territory? Are you forgetting the fact that he admitted under pressure that he used testosterone himself while competing?

Put this in the context of the Androgel, his son, all of it, and mix in the fact that virtually every other successful track and field nation has been beset by doping violations.

Are Americans just culturally disinclined to cheat at sports and other things where money is involved? Do I really need to suggest that Salazar is not being advised to put the kibosh on the behaviors he himself is known to have employed for years before he became a coach, and is most likely being aided and abetted from on high?

You say Salazar knows his stuff. Does he know it so well that his athletes can get by on hard training and "grey area" practices while the rest of the world is beholden to modern pharmacology?

Salazar, despite the smoke from all sides that has coalesced into a veritable conflagration, is doing great things on the basis of wisdom and tireless work alone?

Maybe. But it would be absolutely unprecedented.

Every decent High School XC team in my state is taking L-Carnitine., seriously you guys are clueless.

Right off the shelf at GNC

http://www.gnc.com/performance-probiotics/265403.html?product_id=265403&flagtype=nonbrand&vendor=none&channel=ppc&adpos=1o2&creative=189757865881&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CMWvmczistQCFQQpaQod-X8I-g

rojo wrote:

When I started coaching at Cornell in 2002, the star freshman 800 recruit who had been coached by Salazar in HS very quickly told me, "Hey Salazar hates you guys."

Probably just thought the site's nineties retro look had run it's cause.