TresholdFTW wrote:
The pace is whatever the lactate tells them is it not? Meaning,,, as fast as they can without going above the lactate treshold.
What is threshold in heart rate terminology?
Going at up to 90 percent of heart rate reserve has usually worked well for me.
Thus with a 44 resting heart rate and 168 max, 80 percent of heart rate reserve is 156,
and 85 percent of heart rate reserve is 150.
How do you know if you going above, below or at your lactate threshold?
TresholdFTW wrote:
Nordic renaissance wrote:
OK thank you for the information. I am bit surprised about the part of achieving severe acidosis, as I remember reading some research that high levels of acidosis could destroy your aerobic enzymes built from endurance training - I think that Dieter Baumann followed that principle. Anyway maybe that research is outdated now.
Its not seer acidosis, its 8 or lower in lactate. Not too hard
lol yeah 8 ain't "severe" but that's double concentration of textbook 4mmol threshold definition
Heart rate vs threshold wrote:
TresholdFTW wrote:
The pace is whatever the lactate tells them is it not? Meaning,,, as fast as they can without going above the lactate treshold.
What is threshold in heart rate terminology?
Going at up to 90 percent of heart rate reserve has usually worked well for me.
Thus with a 44 resting heart rate and 168 max, 80 percent of heart rate reserve is 156,
and 85 percent of heart rate reserve is 150.
The thing is, it depends. On the type of workout and on the athlete. Thats why they dont just use heart rate. But between 85-90%, 90% at the most. Thats probably a tad faster.
Also sometimes they do low level lactate training, and sometimes high level (all below or at the treshold though), and its hard to measure those differences in intensity with just heartrate.
ClonedDuck wrote:
TresholdFTW wrote:
Its not seer acidosis, its 8 or lower in lactate. Not too hard
lol yeah 8 ain't "severe" but that's double concentration of textbook 4mmol threshold definition
Sure, but 4mmol isn't really hard. Its just doing the work. You're not breathing terribly hard or anything, just slowly getting tired overall.
I'd say from the flotrack workout videos and reading about american college runners, going at 8mmol or higher doesn't seem unusal.
The Ingebrigtsens double pretty much every day, usually in the form of an easy morning 10k. Most hard workouts are done in the afternoon. A typical week looks something like this:
Monday AM- Easy 10k
Monday PM- 45 minutes jog, strides, drills and stretching
Tuesday AM- Easy 10km
Tuesday PM- 25 x 400m @ Threshold w/30” rec
Wednesday AM- Easy 10km
Wednesday PM- Easy 10km, drills, strides and plyo
Thursday AM- Easy 10km
Thursday PM- 5 x 2000m or 10 x 1000m
Friday AM- Easy 10k
Friday PM- Easy 10k
Saturday AM- 2 x 10 x 200m hills
Saturday PM- Easy 8k
Sunday AM- Easy 15k
Sunday PM- Sauna and strength
I don’t know the pace of the 2000m and 1000m reps, but the 200m hills are run close to all-out.
I gathered this information from the Norwegian (English subtitled) Team Ingebrigtsen documentary on YouTube. My translations from Norwegian are likely imperfect, but this should give you a pretty good idea of what Gjert’s mid-to-late season training looks like.
Ciro wrote:
How do you know if you going above, below or at your lactate threshold?
That is where the garmin apparatus come into the picture. They prick the finger and look at a handheld device.
That is what it look like.
Heart rate vs threshold wrote:
What is threshold in heart rate terminology?
Going at up to 90 percent of heart rate reserve has usually worked well for me.
Thus with a 44 resting heart rate and 168 max, 80 percent of heart rate reserve is 156,
and 85 percent of heart rate reserve is 150.
TresholdFTW wrote:
The thing is, it depends. On the type of workout and on the athlete. Thats why they dont just use heart rate. But between 85-90%, 90% at the most. Thats probably a tad faster.
Also sometimes they do low level lactate training, and sometimes high level (all below or at the treshold though), and its hard to measure those differences in intensity with just heartrate.
Thanks.
Working Stiff wrote:
There is an example week for Henrik Ingebrigtsen during his base phase.
Monday - AM: 12.5km Easy/Moderate, PM: 13km Easy/Moderate
Tuesday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: 25 x 400 at Threshold
Wednesday - AM: 7km Very Easy, PM: 16km Easy/Moderate
Thursday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: 12 x 1km at Threshold
Friday - AM: 7km Very Easy, PM: 13km Easy/Moderate
Saturday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: Off
Sunday - AM: 8 x 300 at Mile Race Pace, PM: 13km Easy
That is interesting. Thanks
If you measure heart rate you get a snapshot at a precice moment in time. It does not tell much about how much effort you have been through.
Lactate however tells a story beyond the snapshot as it accumulates in the blood. You get a better picture of the physical effort put in before the measurement.
Heart rate vs threshold wrote:
Working Stiff wrote:
There is an example week for Henrik Ingebrigtsen during his base phase.
Monday - AM: 12.5km Easy/Moderate, PM: 13km Easy/Moderate
Tuesday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: 25 x 400 at Threshold
Wednesday - AM: 7km Very Easy, PM: 16km Easy/Moderate
Thursday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: 12 x 1km at Threshold
Friday - AM: 7km Very Easy, PM: 13km Easy/Moderate
Saturday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: Off
Sunday - AM: 8 x 300 at Mile Race Pace, PM: 13km Easy
That is interesting. Thanks
So in this base phase /Monday he goes 7.34 easy/mod miles, then 8 miles easy moderate=15.3/
Tues does this 5X6min thres pace runs...with probably a warm up jog before and then 25x400 evening =6.2 miles. So what around 8 miles morning and 6.2 evening=14.2..any cooldown? He must be covering over a mile and a quarter for a six min threshold and again what about warm ups and cool downs.
Wed a 4.3/4 and a 10 miler evening= 14.3/4
Thurs 8 or 9 miles mornin at least and a 12x1k is 7.5 miles =16 miles
Fri 4.3/4 and 8 in evening = 12.5
Sat probably 8 or 9 miles =8.5
Sun 8x300= 2400 plus 8miler evening =9.5 plus warm up cooldowns. So this is over 90 mile weeks and Im way conservative, probably closer to 100 with warmups and cooldowns and he is covering more ground I believe on these threshold runs. Not easy stuff for base phase.
Heart rate vs threshold wrote:
Working Stiff wrote:
There is an example week for Henrik Ingebrigtsen during his base phase.
Monday - AM: 12.5km Easy/Moderate, PM: 13km Easy/Moderate
Tuesday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: 25 x 400 at Threshold
Wednesday - AM: 7km Very Easy, PM: 16km Easy/Moderate
Thursday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: 12 x 1km at Threshold
Friday - AM: 7km Very Easy, PM: 13km Easy/Moderate
Saturday - AM: 5 x 6 minutes at Threshold, PM: Off
Sunday - AM: 8 x 300 at Mile Race Pace, PM: 13km Easy
That is interesting. Thanks
The Ingebrigtsens are probably sitting at home laughing this, none of it is true. Non fast days, they go 20-25 km runs, watch the shows and go onto their Instagram pages. They went for an 80 min, 20km run in the last couple of weeks, which is pretty standard.
motran. wrote:
Heart rate vs threshold wrote:
That is interesting. Thanks
So in this base phase /Monday he goes 7.34 easy/mod miles, then 8 miles easy moderate=15.3/
Tues does this 5X6min thres pace runs...with probably a warm up jog before and then 25x400 evening =6.2 miles. So what around 8 miles morning and 6.2 evening=14.2..any cooldown? He must be covering over a mile and a quarter for a six min threshold and again what about warm ups and cool downs.
Wed a 4.3/4 and a 10 miler evening= 14.3/4
Thurs 8 or 9 miles mornin at least and a 12x1k is 7.5 miles =16 miles
Fri 4.3/4 and 8 in evening = 12.5
Sat probably 8 or 9 miles =8.5
Sun 8x300= 2400 plus 8miler evening =9.5 plus warm up cooldowns. So this is over 90 mile weeks and Im way conservative, probably closer to 100 with warmups and cooldowns and he is covering more ground I believe on these threshold runs. Not easy stuff for base phase.
Very similar to the training Marius Bakken did. Up to 200 km/week and lots of threshold type stuff during base phase.
well,, wrote:
motran. wrote:
So in this base phase /Monday he goes 7.34 easy/mod miles, then 8 miles easy moderate=15.3/
Tues does this 5X6min thres pace runs...with probably a warm up jog before and then 25x400 evening =6.2 miles. So what around 8 miles morning and 6.2 evening=14.2..any cooldown? He must be covering over a mile and a quarter for a six min threshold and again what about warm ups and cool downs.
Wed a 4.3/4 and a 10 miler evening= 14.3/4
Thurs 8 or 9 miles mornin at least and a 12x1k is 7.5 miles =16 miles
Fri 4.3/4 and 8 in evening = 12.5
Sat probably 8 or 9 miles =8.5
Sun 8x300= 2400 plus 8miler evening =9.5 plus warm up cooldowns. So this is over 90 mile weeks and Im way conservative, probably closer to 100 with warmups and cooldowns and he is covering more ground I believe on these threshold runs. Not easy stuff for base phase.
Very similar to the training Marius Bakken did. Up to 200 km/week and lots of threshold type stuff during base phase.
Definitely NOT the Ingle-brix-ten's schedule. Who makes these things up from thin air??
Yeah, go figure
https://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/185888/Tjelta_Leif_Inge.pdf?sequence=7
page 79.
Subway Surfers wrote:
Heart rate vs threshold wrote:
That is interesting. Thanks
The Ingebrigtsens are probably sitting at home laughing this, none of it is true. Non fast days, they go 20-25 km runs, watch the shows and go onto their Instagram pages. They went for an 80 min, 20km run in the last couple of weeks, which is pretty standard.
Once again you prove to be a fool :)
098767890 wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
The Ingebrigtsens are probably sitting at home laughing this, none of it is true. Non fast days, they go 20-25 km runs, watch the shows and go onto their Instagram pages. They went for an 80 min, 20km run in the last couple of weeks, which is pretty standard.
Once again you prove to be a fool :)
Hallo, I can say that this is not the trening. It is a longer run also and not always the hills sesion.
SWAZ wrote:
The Ingebrigtsens double pretty much every day, usually in the form of an easy morning 10k. Most hard workouts are done in the afternoon. A typical week looks something like this:
Monday AM- Easy 10k
Monday PM- 45 minutes jog, strides, drills and stretching
Tuesday AM- Easy 10km
Tuesday PM- 25 x 400m @ Threshold w/30” rec
Wednesday AM- Easy 10km
Wednesday PM- Easy 10km, drills, strides and plyo
Thursday AM- Easy 10km
Thursday PM- 5 x 2000m or 10 x 1000m
Friday AM- Easy 10k
Friday PM- Easy 10k
Saturday AM- 2 x 10 x 200m hills
Saturday PM- Easy 8k
Sunday AM- Easy 15k
Sunday PM- Sauna and strength
I don’t know the pace of the 2000m and 1000m reps, but the 200m hills are run close to all-out.
I gathered this information from the Norwegian (English subtitled) Team Ingebrigtsen documentary on YouTube. My translations from Norwegian are likely imperfect, but this should give you a pretty good idea of what Gjert’s mid-to-late season training looks like.
This seems to make sense if it’s true...
Two threshold workouts a week and a short speed workout.
Along with about an average of 20k a day for around 80-90mpw.
No need for a 30k long run when your focus is the 1500.
Seems like reasonable mid distance training.