My 32 year old brother is about to invest 2 years and 24k into a CompSci degree - how do I stop him?

he should go for it wrote:

Yup, you're wrong. The only thing that gives me pause is the personality fit - but surely there are jobs in the tech world (e.g., managing a team of coders) that can leverage your brother's people skills.

Yeah, and he can fetch 'em beers when they're working OT trying to debug a program that "gramps" F'd up..again.

brotherhood wrote:

Exactly! Your friends dad had an aptitude for computers and a personal interest beforehand! My brother has built a couple simple websites from wordpress for half baked business ideas and that's the extent of it! He's totally unprepared for the rigor of this.

You talk about how there are guys getting hired older than 35 - how there is a lot of work in the industry etc. but I disagree. Look at all the threads on this forum dissuading people from getting into coding because it's a saturated market, there is oversupply, there is offshoring and outsourcing. Sure my brother is probably smart enough to get to the level of a web developer but he'll be eaten up in some code mill company working super long days until he is burnt out and goes back to his old job having wasted 3-4 years.

Why don't you actually look into the industry instead of trying to control your brothers life based off of some posts you happened to see on lrc? Here's some questions you should ask yourself:

1) Is being a software developer a better job than being a bartender?

2) Is it possible for a smart, 35 year old, recent grad to find work as a software developer? Not is it hard. Not does it take sacrifice. Is it possible?

If you answered yes to both of those then what you are saying is your brother should give up on what he wants and settle for what he doesn't. You don't want the best for him, you want him to stay less successful. How but instead of focusing on making sure he doesn't succeed you focus on helping support him so that he does.

Moneyiscool wrote:

While his age is a disadvantage, if he is smart and determined he will still be successful.

Better still, all that Time serving customers will help him out immensely.

An engineer with good social skills is very valuable. It's not guaranteed, but a good pivot.

Of course I recognize that his social skills are of value but why doesn't he put that EQ towards an industry like hospitality or management where it will pay off more?Instead he wants to slog out the seemingly most difficult path that has. Big chance of not working out

Pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Moneyiscool wrote:

While his age is a disadvantage, if he is smart and determined he will still be successful.

Better still, all that Time serving customers will help him out immensely.

An engineer with good social skills is very valuable. It's not guaranteed, but a good pivot.

I've asked and looked at the industry and all I hear is "code mills" "outsourcing" "ageism" "saturated" etc.As for those questions:1 - unknown - unknown in general and potentially no for my brother - he chats up and is very social working around people all day on his feet. He is aiming to do the exact opposite staring at a computer 10 hours a day!2- it's possible but very hard I would say - he would have to be a "natural" coder which is probably unlikely.

rwara wrote:

Why don't you actually look into the industry instead of trying to control your brothers life based off of some posts you happened to see on lrc? Here's some questions you should ask yourself:

1) Is being a software developer a better job than being a bartender?

2) Is it possible for a smart, 35 year old, recent grad to find work as a software developer? Not is it hard. Not does it take sacrifice. Is it possible?

If you answered yes to both of those then what you are saying is your brother should give up on what he wants and settle for what he doesn't. You don't want the best for him, you want him to stay less successful. How but instead of focusing on making sure he doesn't succeed you focus on helping support him so that he does.

Sounds like you don't want him to do this because he might become more successful then you are.

No not at all. I would love that. I just want to protect him from losing money and being miserable in a data entry position he hates. As above I frequently hear this thrown around on the forum: "code mills" "outsourcing" "ageism" "saturated" etc.

trollism wrote:

Sounds like you don't want him to do this because he might become more successful then you are.

Brotherhood wrote:

Instead he wants to slog out the seemingly most difficult path that has. Big chance of not working out

You are wrong.

If he's a halfway good bartender, he'll be amazing dealing with customers. I know from personal experience. If he treats the customer like he's behind the bar it will be fine.

As someone that's in the industry, there are so many tech geeks who openly complain about "the customer" (could be a project manager, could be a paying customer) it's not funny. They have zero clue how to interact with people and want to return to typing. In one way, it's fine. They could be very productive coders. In another, it's very difficult to get the customer's needs met.

Your brother can cross that divide if he plays his cards right.

And coding at this point isn't that hard. As long as he sticks to C or python or perl, he'll be fine. If he works on dying languages like java or fortran, he could have a nice niche over time. If he's got an interest in assembly, it's probably a bad idea at his age. As long as he sticks to the common, higher level languages, he'll be fine.

We're 50 posts into this thread. Has anyone actually agreed with OP?

How is it possible that so many people responded seriously to a post that's obviously a take off on this one:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8220324&page=5

32 years old. Check.

bartending vs waiting tables. Close enough.

"Friend" vs "brother". Again, close enough

He is 100% a people person. But I'm very very hesitant about his ability to not only learn technology of any kind but to thrive in it.

brotherhood wrote:

I feel he is setting himself up for failure on a completely random and new path.

Of course "turning his life around" would be a good thing but his life isn't bad! He isn't an alcoholic or coke addict or anything and has a solid group of friends.

I think a way better plan of action would be to do something like take night classes for a business degree and try to become the restaurant manager - he stays in the same field but does something a little different instead of essentially rolling the dice.

And no, I've seen all the posts on this forum about computer coding etc. and there is obviously a TON of ageism - he would be in tough as a 35 year old new grad.

While some of what you are saying may come to pass as a challenge, don't you think your brother knows more about it (and himself) than you do? Also, on what planet do you need a college degree in business (or anything else) to be a restaurant manager?

You seem like kind of a shallow, and unsupportive brother. I agree that you should take him in while he completes his degree and make it easier for him. Even if he never becomes a programmer, maybe having this degree is valuable for something else.

Brotherhood wrote:

He is 100% a people person. But I'm very very hesitant about his ability to not only learn technology of any kind but to thrive in it.

But, he's done fine in lower-level math classes already. Rather ordinary people operate nuclear submarines. He can learn to code.

You are wrong on this all the way down the line.

Anyone who uses a phrase like "makes decent coin" is an imbecile whose opinion is entirely worthless and who probably does not even deserve to live.

Just thought you should know.

For someone bored with their job computer science is the worst possible choice. Most software engineering jobs are extremely boring. True, there are some interesting ones, but they're hard to get especially for someone with such a background.

Surprise! wrote:

brotherhood wrote:

His age is a huge disadvantage and if he takes this course - even if he manages to bootstrap his way through it - he'll likely be a mediocre grad and one of the oldest as well - very tough spot to find a job.

His age isn't a disadvantage unless he expects to get paid like someone with 10 years experience. I hire software devs and engineers and I would hire an entry level 34 year old over an entry 24 year old every day of the week considering all else was equal.

I reinvented myself mid-career and earned a BS CIS from the best public school in my state. Graduated at 37 ranked first in my degree program which included sixty something CIS majors. The first job's pay was comparable to what I had been earning, which was fine as my goals were looking term, and during the next two years, I focused on gaining experience and a good reputation within my new profession. Earned $55-65K during the first two years, then jumped to a second job for $75K while keeping an eye out for other opportunities. Six months later I moved onto a position paying $120K. Inflation adjusted, I'm probably still earning about the same twenty years later, which is more than adequate to have a decent quality of life in my area.

Those first few years I was putting in long hours and reading about 1500 pages a month of technical books trying my best to improve the odds that I'd have some "luck" with my career. As the experience grew, the hours and book devouring slowly tapered off.

Not everyone is like you op. Some would like more than a so-so salary with lots of free time to goof off. I wish your brother well, and I hope his brother becomes a better brother.

That's just it. He definitely does not know more about it than me. I've been researching this and talking to people for weeks. He just saw a program he likes, said "f it" and is about to jump in. And no you don't need a college degree to be a restaurant manager but a business diploma would certainly help - especially if he aspired to be the manager of a big hotel etc.

The Overexplainer wrote:

While some of what you are saying may come to pass as a challenge, don't you think your brother knows more about it (and himself) than you do? Also, on what planet do you need a college degree in business (or anything else) to be a restaurant manager?

You seem like kind of a shallow, and unsupportive brother. I agree that you should take him in while he completes his degree and make it easier for him. Even if he never becomes a programmer, maybe having this degree is valuable for something else.

Exactly!!! Finally a real answer. This is what I'm trying to convey to my brother!He's going to spend 2-4 years in the most boring courses imaginable and then be spit out into some code mill - and that's if he doesn't give up/fail.

jdfkerg wrote:

For someone bored with their job computer science is the worst possible choice. Most software engineering jobs are extremely boring. True, there are some interesting ones, but they're hard to get especially for someone with such a background.

Great story but I bet you anything you are fundamentally different from my brother in the following ways:1 - You likely had an office job before doing this so were used to a 9-5 business type lifestyle. 2 - You probably handle boredom and can persevere through boring tasks - I have little faith my brother can do this - in fact this is likely the #1 reason he'll fail. 3 - You likely had savings/ money to pay for your degree. On top of all my brothers handicaps he is also next to broke!!