IAAF Set to Wipe all pre 2005 World Records from the Books

Totally agree. It's a stupid decision.

The problem is that the ''test administrators' and chain of custody' of the samples taken thus far are not certified and this not permitted as evidence in the United States Judicial System. Thus decisions using this policy can be struck down in the US Court of Law.

he's back, baby! wrote:

Is Alan Webb going to be the world record holder in the mile? Nice.

Answer:

No.

El G and Ms. Paula Radcliffe will always be the clean world record holders.

Oh boy.

I'd give it to Webb if he wore a fez like that.

Not Jelimo. Her ABV were high from the 2008 Games. All 3 medalist from that 800m had suspicious ABV.

Great idea! Let's assume that times before 2005 are "dirty" and times after 2005 are "clean."

Let's replace Flo Jo's "dirty" 10.49 WR from 1988 with Carmelita Jeter's "clean" 10.64 from 2009.

Let's replace Qu Yunxia's "dirty" 3:50.46 WR from 1993 with Genzebe Dibaba's "clean" 3:50.07 from 2015.

Let's replace Wang Junxia's "dirty" 29:31 WR from 1993 with Almaz Ayana "clean" 29:17 from 2016.

Let's replace our old delusions with new delusions. Great job IAAF!

And what happens to the All Time lists per event?

Do they remove everyone's name who appears on the all time lists, who set their performance pre 2005?

It's a ludicrous decision and will lose public support for the sport. There is enough cynicism and accusations about who is and was likely to have doped as it is. This just throws more fuel on the fire.

A much better course of action is to remove anyone from the lists who have ever tested positive for any banned substance, regardless of whether their best times were set the same season, and to remove anyone who has openly admitted to having taken peds at anytime during their career. E.g. Koch's letter complaining about not having as much steroids as Wockel, that was recorded by the Stasi.

And what about all those performances in recent years from athletes in countries like Kenya, Jamaica and Ethiopia, where they haven't had the money to carry out their own national level testing? It's already clear to most, considering events of the last year, that many elite athletes from these countries (and others where the testing is lacking) have been getting away with cheating.

Why should these largely 'untested' current athletes get the benefit of the doubt, despite competing in an era when many of their peers are subjected to far more robust and vigorous testing procedures, when those who competed in previous eras, where they passed all testing that was then required, are considered questionable! ?

There will be many hundreds of clean athletes who will basically have their names removed from the stats lists. If I were them I'd be steaming mad right now.

And how far back will they go, as there was no testing at all in the 60's, and steroids weren't even illegal! Should Snell's name be removed as NZ national record holder from 1962? Will Ryun's times be removed from the 1500 and mile lists? Neither had to be tested after all.

The whole thing is a bad idea and hasn't been thought through properly. I hope the IAAF see sense if enough supporters and athletes themselves complain about the proposals.

I hope this is a joke. While I wish that the protocols pre-2005 were the same as they are today, this is absolutely not the solution.

1) What happens in 20 years when the athletes have to go through more stringent doping controls than today? Do today's records get wiped? Do we repeat this process forever? How about this -- we make a new kind of record, reset it every year, and call it the "World Leader."

2) What happens in cases with athletes crossing over between the time periods? For example Bekele's 5000m from 2005 stays, while his 5000m from 2004 goes? He was the same athlete.

3) What happens if a record is given to a known or suspected doper? Are we willing to do this, even if the real record holder was thought to be clean?

4) What happens if the world record is broken next year by an relative unknown, who hasn't spent time in the OOC testing pool. Is that person's record more valid than a record from 2004?

5) Do we expect this to happen on a smaller level, such as national records? Or are we going to allow a national record to be faster than the World Record?

If we decide that everything before 2005 didn't really happen, there will be no real or fake anymore. As bad as the upcoming pseudo-marathon is, this is worse. If these changes happen, it will destroy the sport.

Bways01@yahoo.com wrote:

Not Jelimo. Her ABV were high from the 2008 Games. All 3 medalist from that 800m had suspicious ABV.

Do not try to take away Jarmila's clean 800m record of 1:53.28 from 1983!!!

Jarmila was a very strong girl even when she was just a teenager.

Jarmila always had a strong body and a strong mind.

Jarmila must keep the 800m record…for strong women!!!

First of all they have un-bonded, unqualified, non-Law Enforcement personnel draw the`blood, observe the urination, then label and handle the products. Second, the laboratory personnel are not bonded, certified, and backgrounds checked by Law Enforcement, Public Peer Review Boards, International Press, citizens, athletes, coaches, etc.

Its just dumb. I agree doping is a huge problem, and it has stained the record books, but to just assume the the sport after 2005 is more clean is foolish. The same people that caused doping in the 80s are still working behind the scenes today, athlrtes are still doing. Every new test is just a new challenge that they will find away around. This is just robbing clean people. And swimming has taught us that these records will fall. In 2008 and 2009 rubber swimsuits provided an unfair advantage to bigger swimmers and let them put up times outside of the world for the time, almost completely rewriting the record books.After they were banned people wanted all records set in them removed ,claiming they would never fall. Yet know the new records outnumbered the old ones. It will take time but those records will fall

Nick Davies from Great Britain wrote:

Bways01@yahoo.com wrote:

Not Jelimo. Her ABV were high from the 2008 Games. All 3 medalist from that 800m had suspicious ABV.

Do not try to take away Jarmila's clean 800m record of 1:53.28 from 1983!!!

Jarmila was a very strong girl even when she was just a teenager.

Jarmila always had a strong body and a strong mind.

Jarmila must keep the 800m record…for strong women!!!

They should have scrubbed all the Eastern Bloc WRs and medals a long time ago. If they can ban an entire country now (Russia) from competition because of 'state sponsored doping' then they can erase country's records from eras when everybody now knows for certain those countrys were engaged in state doping.

Maybe the best solution is lie detectors? I read that there's been a big advance there - something to do with measuring brain waves if I remember correctly, which makes it close to 100% accurate. They could then put every living world record holder through a lie detector test and if they fail or refuse it their records are scrubbed. Only problem is that Flo Jo's record would still stand.

Get rid of that 26:25.9 by Bekele in 2008 Prefontaine Classic ... that's got dope smeared all over it.

Brainwave lie detector for anyone wanting to keep their records

Paula Radcliffe first

What about the Federation and WADA employees. Who are they. What are their qualifications. Degrees. Backgrounds. Names. Employers. Criminal Record. We have the right to know our accusers in the United States. But have zero information in sorts.

Scrapping world records does not prove that certain world records are clean or dirty.

These proposals will correctly emphasize the point that many world records have been validated differently.

An athlete that went through weak or no drug testing CANNOT be objectively compared with an athlete that went through more stringent testing.

Every world record should be stated with what drug testing protocol the athlete in question was subjected to.

This is basic common sense.

Until we have unbeatable drug tests, this process of wiping world records should be continually applied every x years.

There will be an unofficial world record list and an official world record list. That is how it should be.

In law, you assume innocence until proven guilty.

In science, you assume nothing.

ukathleticcoach wrote:

Link to follow

What they should do is have a rule book which includes records from every era.

Perhaps they should even list the world record for each year.

The world record for the 1500 in 1930 may have been around 4 minutes. So for 1930 that was the record. Period. Then if a guy ran 4:01 in 1931 that was the world record. The competition is to achieve the fastest time or best mark for that particular year. But you would still do drug testing.

There are other possibilities but it would be silly to wipe out all records before 2005. I doubt this is an issue.

deanoisgod wrote:

Maybe the best solution is lie detectors? I read that there's been a big advance there - something to do with measuring brain waves if I remember correctly, which makes it close to 100% accurate. They could then put every living world record holder through a lie detector test and if they fail or refuse it their records are scrubbed. Only problem is that Flo Jo's record would still stand.

Even if they really were reliable, you would not catch those whose doctors told them that those injections were only for vitamins.

As for the erasing, yes please. Anything that old is highly suspicious anyway, when over a decade of great talents can't get that record despite all our grand advances in training, shoes, nutrition, etc.

Finally, doesn't anyone remember the 70s? Now I feel old... Back then, the record books of the sprints were rewritten after the IAAF required electronic timing (not a bad idea). So now the IAAF may start requiring to keep the blood for ten years, not a bad idea either.