People need to STOP doing easy runs at 50mpw

Trackbot! VDOT 16:11 5k

VDOT for 16:11 5km: 63.7

Equivalent race times based on VDOT:

Marathon: 02:35:11

Half marathon: 01:14:10

15K: 00:51:33

10K: 00:33:35

5K: 00:16:11

3Mi: 00:15:35

2Mi: 00:10:04

3200m: 00:10:00

3K: 00:09:19

1Mi: 00:04:42

1600m: 00:04:40

1500m: 00:04:21

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I agree with him, but he needs to learn how to communicate less aggressively. If you want to recover, use a foam roll and do some light stretching. If you run 50 mpw, you will get more out of it by avoiding the rediculously slow recovery runs. Running overly slow emphasises poor running form. The key to becoming a fast runner is to run fast!

Carl Hauser wrote:

You do have a point about eliminating some junk miles. Slogging at 8min/mile pace does nothing useful.

Well it's wrong to say it does nothing useful. At the very least it burns calories. I do agree that during peak training for a competitive runner it doesn't really make a difference whether 40 or 60 of his weekly miles are borderline-jogging miles (provided his hard miles are the same in either case).

The bigger question is, given that most of us have limited time to train, is there something more useful that could be done in the time we would be running easy miles? Like vigorous swimming.

Sure, run every run hard(ish), if you don't believe in basically all the science of distance running from the last 50 years. The body responds to periodization, both during a week and over the course of a season.

No offence dude, but your jump to 16:11 was an obvious short term gain. It just means that you grew a pair and screwed your head on straight for training and racing. Any marginally talented and fit young male can run in the 16s if they actually do workouts and run regularly.

Over the long run, you'll get battered by injury, as you aren't a very fast runner, really, and are running slightly over your head in training, always. I'm about the same ability level as you and run much slower on my off days (and probably much harder in the workouts). I used to get injured and burn out, until I slowed it down and actually increased my mileage overall. It's not about the run, it's about the recovery.

Good luck breaking 16 minutes.

P.S. run more mileage and don't be a p*ssy, as you would so eloquently say.

Donger wrote:

The second part is true. It would make varsity on 90% but probably not #1.

You should look at more race results. 16-low will win most high school races.

In any event, the answer to the "how easy should my 'easy' days be" question is simple--it changes depending on your periodization. When you are a long ways from your goal races, you should be running most of your mileage at a decent clip (think Lydiard base phase--which was not supposed to be "slow"), but your workouts should be less stressful so that you can still recover well. As you approach your goal race, workouts get tougher and more important, and your "easy" pace will get as slow as necessary to ensure that you recover in order to hammer the workouts. There are, admittedly, other variables such as one's muscle fiber distribution (far too often ignored), but for the most part, this approach just works.

longnhard wrote:

You're not running 100mpw, you're not running twice a day, stop being a p**sy and run faster.

I went from a 17:05 5k to 16:11 5k in 3 months after I stopped doing easy runs at 8 min mile pace and started doing them at 7min pace or even sub 7 on some runs, this was on top of 3 hard workouts a week.

Slow running makes slow runners.

I haven't read the thread so I am sure other people have posted this but I need to comment.

You are still running slow. Probably too slow if you are a 16:11 guy now. If you were a 17 min 5k guy running 8 min miles you were running wayyyy too slow. When I say easy runs for a 17 min guy, I mean 6:45-7 min miles.

Also 8/10 this is a great troll thread.

Only sissies run slow when 100% recovered. Easy runs are to regenerate in time for the next workout while getting a small aerobic benefit.

Okay, I've stopped.

But now I'm only running 3 days and 20 miles per week.

What now? Crossfit??

Please advise.

I feel like I get my speed from long slow distance. Never do I feel more full of running or the devastation of a kick that I can wield at the end of a nice languid run. That ish primes my fast twitch muscles in a weird way.

How old are you? If you are under 17, there is not way to determine if your improvement was due to age and accumulated training or if it was due to running a little faster on your easy days.

We also don't know if everything else stayed static. Did you change your diet? Did your hard days get harder? Did you start doing other exercises? Did you stop your hard, partying ways? Give up smoking dope? Stopping beating your girlfriend up? Did your dad stop molesting or beating you?

There are lots of data points you are not considering.

Maybe you went dropped a minute by running a little faster. Maybe not.

16:11 ain't bad. Sounds like you have more in the tank if you continue to reach for it.

In truth, anybody doing 50 mpw should be fit enough to push when they are feeling their oats.

Also, it depends on where you are in your running life. Some people are intent on being the best they can be and will do 3x workouts per week.

Some people just like to run and are not too worried about reaching for elite status.

TheCanadian wrote:

As Zatopek said," "Why should I practice running slow? I already know how to run slow. I want to learn to run fast."

Zatopek was one of the all-time greats, no doubt. The best runner of his era, and in parts, that's because he understood the importance of training better than his contemporaries.

But his PRs were 13:57, 28:54 and 2:23:04.

Sure, he didn't have the best possible nutrition, had to join the army, and had to run with bad shoes on bad tracks. But he was almost certainly more talented than most people who run these times today, and probably could have run faster had he used modern training methods.

It really is all about what an individual is able to handle physically, and that's why I hate the boxes people put on themselves about easy days. My running career started when I was trying to play both baseball and run track. Every day after baseball practice, I would come home and run 4-5 miles as fast as I could. This was around my junior year of high school, so I was running them between 5:45 pace and 6:15.

The approach just kind of stuck...from 45 miles, to 55 miles, to 75 miles, I always gravitated back to roughly 6:00 pace. Everyone on my college team argued with me about it, and I did plenty of runs by myself because no one wanted to run with me. In the end, I went from being a 9:50 2-miler in HS down to running 8:30 for the 10k and eventually running a 2:22 marathon in awful conditions. Even when I was doing my heaviest marathon training, plenty of my daily runs were below 6:00 pace, and never had a stress fracture or major injury. It was painfully boring to run 6:30 pace on my easy days.

In the end, I was always able to handle high volume at a high intensity. Sure, there were some days where I felt absolutely worn down, and those were the days I ran slower. I just always ran as fast as comfortably possible on most of my training runs and ended up having a very good career. Bottom line is that you have to listen to your own body instead of the constraints of other people whose bodies might respond differently to training stimuli than your own.

In my state during my time, 16:11 would have placed in the top 10 at the state XC meet for the big schools and in the top 20 for all schools combined. It probably would have won some regionals.

As for the OP, I raced my easy workouts and went close to all-out for the speed work. I ended up with pretty flat seasons as a result. As a senior I opened with a 4:30 in my first meet, ran all my races except for two in 4:30-4:35, and ended up with my PR in a mid-season invitational with 4:25. Looking back, I wish I had done slower easy running on the easy days. XC PR was 15:3x in the state meet (winner was 15:1x) but not significantly faster than earlier season races. I wasn't pacing my easy runs but there were a few of us running those times and we pretty much always raced our easy days. I wouldn't be surprised if were going mid- to low-6's with a few sub-6 at the end.

Now I'm a bonafide hobby jogger with about an 18:00 5K fitness and my easy runs start off at 9:00 then drop to 8:00 and hover in the mid-to-upper 7's, or never crack 8 if I'm really worked. I don't push it -- I've injured myself too many times pushing myself to the point where I'm not recovered after recovery days.

Granted, I'm not going from 18:00 to 17:00 in a season as a result, but if I tried to keep the tempo high for everything my body couldn't handle it. Be grateful for your young body that recovers quickly and responds even more rapidly to stress by improving your energy systems.

I define an easy run by heart rate, if you're heart never peaks 140bpm then it is an easy day. The pace will change by fitness, temperature, humidity and if you see any hot neighbors jogging but HR will give you honest recovery.

Recovery you need because you're not slogging the workouts are you?

Are you?

That's cute.

Most Kenyans I know broke 16 minutes in the 5K having never ran before. You should probably find another sport.

FACT KING wrote:

That's cute.

Most Kenyans I know broke 16 minutes in the 5K having never ran before. You should probably find another sport.

But you don't know any Kenyans because you're a 13 year old boy living at home, acting hard on the internet.

good point. using actual pace as a reference for intensity is not very good. HR is okay but still is only a variable. On easy days I like to ask myself the question, "could you keep doing this for 3 hours"

The point the OP made about not running easy if you're only doing 50 mpw is bad advice IMO. When you're only doing 50 miles a week this is when your body is most susceptible to injury. I do almost all of my runs easy in the build up phase.

I like the 80/20 running principles personally.