What could El G and Lagat run for 200m in their prime?

WAY FASTER wrote:

I could run 23.6 at age 41 from blocks .

I'm not even in their zipcode talent wise

I'm NOT a sprinter!

They had to way faster than that !

You aren't kidding. The slow times that some of these guys are guessing are ridiculous. They don't realize that world class middle distance guys generally possess speed that the average guy would consider blazing.

I remember watching Steve Scott train back in the day and it was obvious he was capable of sub 22 if he had trained for the 200, same goes for Sebastian Coe and a lot of others.

People always overestimate the top 400 times of elite 1500/5000 guys. These 200 estimates are getting insane.

1) Add about a second to the hand timed rolling start 200 your friend clocked you at in practice. Furthermore, you are not a good reference to compare to a finely tuned endurance machine. Your speed deteriorates a lot quicker.

2) Just because someone can close a 5k in 51 doesn't mean they have 46 second speed. I remember one Canova post about one of his athletes who closed a race in 51 or 52. Curious about his potential, the athlete raced an open 400 the next week. His time was the same.

3) Elite 800m runners absolutely have great speed. It's necessary to be able to go out in 49-50 for a race. Using Clayton Murphy for reference isn't particularly helpful when looking at 1500/5000 guys.

4) The times you run sprinting as a youth aren't generally going to improve that much as you train as a distance runner. I ran 25.5 from the blocks in grade 9 as a 4:50 miler. Fast forward to age 22 when I was a 4:00 miler, my 200 still wasn't any better.

El G and Lagat could probably run somewhere between 48 and 49 seconds for 400m from scratch. That's entirely guesswork but I would be shocked if they got much below 47 high. With that kind of 400 speed, and their endurance, you would expect their 200 to be somewhere around 23.0. Maybe a little slower, maybe a little faster.

Unless I misheard and misread, Lagat was not running close to 53s in that workout wednesday. He was sick at the time and running more like 63s with a last 400 of 58.

The Irritator wrote:

El G and Lagat would never have broken 3:30 without PED's, never mind their sub 1:47 finish in Athens. I hate it when people take obvious cheats and try to compare them to athletes who weren't on EPO - which didn't exist at the time. Put Coe or Cram or Ryun or Henry Rono on EPO and then we can compare them to some of the frauds of the past three decades, including Mo.

Despite the fact that you have no evidence of El G and Lagat doping, or of Coe, Cram, Ryun, and Rono NOT doping, you have even less evidence that El G and Lagat would not have been able to break 3:30 without PEDs (assuming they were taking them). And none of this is relevant to the question at hand.

jamin . wrote:

odof wrote:

Is this a joke or is this serious?

Dead serious.

You should suggest to your teammate that he change event groups and try being a mediocre sprinter rather than a really bad 1500m runner.

Either way, it doesn't really relate to an elite 1500m runner. I'm sure there are other people out there running crap 1500s because they didn't realize they could be better at the sprints. However, elite 1500m runners aren't sprinters. If they had elite sprinters abilities, it would actually make them slower endurance athletes, because they would lack a good balance of slow twitch muscle required of their event.

I ran a 20 x 220 workout with Peter Snell at Angell Field in 1963. We started with 30's getting down to 23's at 18-19. The 20th 220 was flat out. I had previously run 22.4 on cinders and Snell ran by me with 110 to go like I was standing still.

Robin Ruble wrote:

I ran a 20 x 220 workout with Peter Snell at Angell Field in 1963. We started with 30's getting down to 23's at 18-19. The 20th 220 was flat out. I had previously run 22.4 on cinders and Snell ran by me with 110 to go like I was standing still.

Lucky guy.

I ran a 20 x 220 workout with Peter Snell at Angell Field, Stanford in 1963. Our first few were 30 increasing to 27. The 18th and 19th were 23. On the final one it was flat out. I ran 22.4 on cinders in HS and was leading Sir Peter with 110 to go when he just flew by me like I was standing still. If I was to guess his 220 speed I would say low 22, high 21.

I ran a 20 x 220 workout with Peter Snell at Angell Field, Stanford in 1963. We started slowly at 30 transitioning down to 25 - 26. The 18th and 19th were 23 and the last one was flat out. I ran a 22.4 from blocks on cinders in HS and was a junior at Stanford when we ran this workout. I was leading with 110 when Sir Peter flew by me like I was standing still.

I would say his 220 time, again on cinders, would be low 22, high 21.

I ran a 20 x 220 workout with Peter Snell at Angell Field, Stanford in 1963. We started easily with 30's transitioning to 27's 26's and 25's. The 18th and 19th were 23 and the last one was flat out.

I ran a 22.4 220 from blocks on cinders in HS and I was a junior at Stanford when we ran this workout. I can honestly say that I was leading with 110 to go and then Sir Peter flew by me like I was standing still.

My guess as to Peter's speed - low 22s (on cinders), hi 21s.

rublerv wrote:

I ran a 20 x 220 workout with Peter Snell at Angell Field, Stanford in 1963. We started easily with 30's transitioning to 27's 26's and 25's. The 18th and 19th were 23 and the last one was flat out.

I ran a 22.4 220 from blocks on cinders in HS and I was a junior at Stanford when we ran this workout. I can honestly say that I was leading with 110 to go and then Sir Peter flew by me like I was standing still.

My guess as to Peter's speed - low 22s (on cinders), hi 21s.

Umm, this was semi-interesting the first time you posted it...

jjjjj wrote:

Unless I misheard and misread, Lagat was not running close to 53s in that workout wednesday. He was sick at the time and running more like 63s with a last 400 of 58.

Good spotting, you are absolutely correct, it was the US trials that he closed in about 53 (I think, I hope). Saw both of these within days of each other and mixed them up. He did close the Athens 1500m in 51.6 (again I think, I hope).

kimani wrote:

rublerv wrote:

I ran a 20 x 220 workout with Peter Snell at Angell Field, Stanford in 1963. We started easily with 30's transitioning to 27's 26's and 25's. The 18th and 19th were 23 and the last one was flat out.

I ran a 22.4 220 from blocks on cinders in HS and I was a junior at Stanford when we ran this workout. I can honestly say that I was leading with 110 to go and then Sir Peter flew by me like I was standing still.

My guess as to Peter's speed - low 22s (on cinders), hi 21s.

Umm, this was semi-interesting the first time you posted it...

Considering all the spam on the front page as I post, don't blame the poster. Posting can be a mess at any time.

jamin . wrote:

A teammate who owns a 4:10 1500 has 22 high 200 speed. Hard to believe he could beat Lagat in a 200.

Hard to believe your teammate is as slow as 4:10 off that 200m but there you go. You have dispoved your own point.

Your teamate should stick to the sprints and certainly nothing above 800m

Lagat and El G I would put at around 22.9-23.5 but its a guess base on neither having a lightining fast finish and there is no excuse for never beating 1:46. Give them 1:44 ad still they are not the fastest speed wise. They are 3:30 runners at best without pacing of the chemical variety.

El G inparticular had to take it out and was done in slower races, Lagat slightly stronger built so maybe he would shade 200m

Great post!

ukathleticscoach wrote:

jamin . wrote:

A teammate who owns a 4:10 1500 has 22 high 200 speed. Hard to believe he could beat Lagat in a 200.

Hard to believe your teammate is as slow as 4:10 off that 200m but there you go. You have dispoved your own point.

Your teamate should stick to the sprints and certainly nothing above 800m

Lagat and El G I would put at around 22.9-23.5 but its a guess base on neither having a lightining fast finish and there is no excuse for never beating 1:46. Give them 1:44 ad still they are not the fastest speed wise. They are 3:30 runners at best without pacing of the chemical variety.

El G inparticular had to take it out and was done in slower races, Lagat slightly stronger built so maybe he would shade 200m

I agree.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Your teamate should stick to the sprints and certainly nothing above 800m

Lagat and El G I would put at around 22.9-23.5 but its a guess base on neither having a lightining fast finish and there is no excuse for never beating 1:46. Give them 1:44 ad still they are not the fastest speed wise. They are 3:30 runners at best without pacing of the chemical variety.

El G inparticular had to take it out and was done in slower races, Lagat slightly stronger built so maybe he would shade 200m

Someone can check this out, but didn't El G do around 1:46.9 for the last 800m in the Athens 1500m? Lagat was about 0.1 quicker again.

Everything else is correct, these two had very high running speeds, sub-13 for 5k. Can't imagine them going much faster than 23.

Deanouk wrote:

4:10 mile pace for 5000 meters wrote:

stationary

With a couple of weeks practice of blocks when in 1500m peak form, then I'd say 23.5 - 24.0 FAT in a race with athletes of similar 200 ability.

If I had to choose a winner over 200m, then I'd say Lagat, 23.67 to 23.92! LOL

I guess they are the sort of times women capable of running in their national championships could run.

What are you smoking?