Breaking point between hobby jogger, runner, and athlete

The cut off is and always will be SUB 13 5000m.

Anything else is child's play.

Romeo wrote:

I think the break is not in time, but in attitude.

I agree with you, but this is letsrun, where:

* people make fun of an Olympic gold medalist because his time was "slow";

* people think all able-bodied adult males could break 16:00 with proper training;

* people think "training trumps genetics". ahh ha ha ha!

Maybe we need to start defining the attitude labels.

elite - willing to take PEDs

Real(R) runner - willing to anonymously denigrate anything less than a WR performance

runner - willing to train seriously as long as it does not detract from making 200k, vacationing with the trophy wife, and posting on letsrun

hobby jogger - happy just to run, pity the fool

Too many literal people here.

"hobby means this.... and jogger means this.... therefore hobby jogger means....."

Come on, language doesn't work that way. 1+1 doesn't always = 2

It's like saying "i'm not your brother" when someone calls you "bro". Or "he's not from Africa", when someone uses "African American". You know what they meant, you just want to be contrary.

The term does have a generally accepted meaning and everyone knows it: A recreational runner who is on the slower, less dedicated, and/or less knowledgeable end of the spectrum. Argue the semantics regarding exact cutoffs or the importance of different traits if you want. But this whole "we're all hobby joggers cause we don't get paid" argument is silly.

Correct. Hobby joggers are runners are athletes. And then there are pros. 14:00 5k guys are fast hobby joggers.

oxodk wrote:

If you aren't making a living from your running, then you are a hobby jogger. So that would likely mean anyone slower than 13:20 for 5000m.

hobby joggers don't race, or race to finish

runners race to PR

athletes race to win

Speed is irrelevant until you talk about elite runners

Hobby Jogger's just run a few times a week to keep active with no real goal other than to keep generally fit. Much like how some other people may play tennis or swim a few times per week.

Runner is someone with a structured running plan throughout a year with goals in mind.

Athlete is anyone who plays any type of sport at any level.

I think you would break "Elite" into the time based categories.

Hobby jogger - someone who posts online or somehow broadcasts their latest 5K or marathon PRs. These hobby joggers tend to age-grade to 80 points or less, but think their times are amazing, and never shy away from letting you know that they "kicked butt" at the local race. If they just kept there mouths shut I might promote them to a 'runner.'

Runner - the guy or gal around the office who is very fit, yet never posts anything about their running. However you can see from local road race results that they are regularly age-grading over 80 points.

Athlete - the guy or gal that devotes enough time to run more mileage per week than 90% of those in their age group, and at the same time, these people tend to also run age-graded results of 85+ points. They also never share/post their results.

So, it appears I have an automatic bias against people broadcasting results. This is due to 40+ years of experience of seeing those with the most to brag about choosing to remain silent. They just love to run, and let their feet do the talking. amen.

Romeo wrote:

I think the break is not in time, but in attitude. If you take races seriously and have a goal time/place in mind, you're probably a runner. If you are super proud of "finisher" medals and you're main goal is to just finish, to finish without walking, or to "just have fun" then you'll have a REAL hard time convincing me you're not a hobby jogger.

THIS

Hobby joggers have either considered or been a part of a walk-run group, or, one who often finds themself competing against a walk-run group member. A hobby jogger doesn't understand that their numerous running injuries are caused by their excessive weight. Hobby joggers can be hypnotized by shiny, easily-obtainable medals.

Runners participate in every local race and have no idea how to set or attain goals, which sometimes are achieved by accident. Runners consider a first place in their age group as a victory even if that means finishing well behind the overall winners. A BQ is beyond their ability, or so they think, and will often race in several marathons a month to try and achieve that impossible goal. Runners who seek recognition after not being able to BQ, will often become ultramarathoners.

Athletes train and race f@#$ ing hard. They are driven to succeed and have little time, or desire, to run with the local hobby joggers or runners. Athletes do EVERYTHING they can to go a few milliseconds faster and are either currently fighting the doping demons in their heads or along for the ride. Athletes have never been hobby joggers or runners, and never will be. If an athlete shows up to a race, it's to win.

By definition, it's anyone who doesn't run professionally. Yes, that includes elite college athletes who haven't signed a contract. Now, anyone regardless of ablility can be racers. To be a racer, you just have to beat the guy in front of you. I know lots of waddlers who love to race. They know they will never be "fast" due to lack of talent or other reasons. But they stay in their pace group and are just as aggressive as any competitor in the field. Now joggers, could care less about time or place. They are just tuned into their tunes or their jogging buddies and are just happy to be participating.

Me, I am the classic fitness runner who is a hobby racer. I am too old and slow to win races out right, but I will dog fight with my age groupers and enjoy occasionally taking down some of those younger whipper snappers that are off their game. Love to hear them say they got out kicked by grandpa. Makes my day.

+1

Great post. I agree 100%. When you talk to people, in the first 5 minutes you'll be able to see whether they are into running or not. It's the same thing when an employee tries to suck up to the boss who plays golf and when the boss says: "what did you shoot last weekend?" and the employee responds "oh I don't remember...blah blah blah" one can tell that they are a hobby golfer. Same thing with running.

A cool test is when someone is talking about running at a social event and you suspect they're a hobby jogger, ask in front of everyone "did you run today?"

Not to be pedantic, but there's no one on Earth who can hold 5-minute pace indefinitely. It I doubt if Kipchoge or Farah could hold that pace for more than 4 hours.

Here are my classifications for 5k time

HS JV: >17:30

HS Varsity: 15:10 - 17:30

HS Elite: 15:40

Univ sub-elite: 14:00 - 15:40

Univ elite: 20:00

Alright: 18:00-20:00

Good: 16:30-18:00

Very good: 15:20-16:30

Fast: 14:40-15:20

Very fast: 14:00-14:40

Sub-elite: 13:20-14:00

Elite: 12:50-13:20

Elite+: 12:37.36-12:50

Kenny B: 12:37.35

4/10

Another classical "anyone slower than me is a jogger" post. At least I give you credit for not calling those faster than you drug cheats.

Athlete: Anyone who can run as fast as me

Runner: Anyone who cannot run as fast as me but isn't that far off

Hobby jogger: Anyone who is much slower than me

PED user: Anyone who can run much faster than me

80% or less if hobby jogger?Are you serious here?This would mean that the winner of the La Jolla Half Marathon at 1:19:46 or so on a very hot day would then be a hobby jogger???Furthermore, since my 19:35 PR last year is a 62% age grade, I should then consider myself a hobby jogger because.....I can't run a sub 17 5K at age 42???What of us then? If we are not 80%, should we just lie on the couch, cheer for the real athletes who are apparently only the Olympians and world champions and drink beer all day? Forget training! Forget goals! We, the 79 and below age graders have failed! Whiskey for our souls and beer for our livers!LOLReally?!! THIS is your breaking point? LOL Riiiight.

In fact, I will add a side note to this.

One of the best athletes, runners and elites altogether was not quiet about his results or his running or training and he did not have to be.

Here in San Diego County, there is an athlete who still has a legacy here. Still is highly respected and still came up with some major results, including an impressive college feat.

Nobody ever to this day would call him a hobby jogger.

We all know that he is not.

Just saying.

Many of us are waiting for the day he makes it to the olympics. We won't be quiet about it, and nor should he.

my non-trolling answer would be anyone that strives for a performance figure at/around 70% AG for one or more events or something tangible like a BQ

to put that in more tangible terms [unless you have an AG table in front of you], thats like shooting to be at/maintain around a