My goal is to make it to the 2020 Olympic Trials in the Steeple and I will do everything I can to achieve this goal

run more miles.

And also lift more weights. The 26.x is not enough, but there may be hope if you never worked strength or speed.

You have to make your legs stronger than they ever were before. AND run more miles.

They may help each other.

I have a theory about consistency and I can calculate it.

Consistency = volume variation along a period of time.

My theory says that the optimal coefficient of variation is 20%.

According to this formula, your current week had a variation of 38%.

Pretty high.

I say that the 37 miles of running could be more efficient if you would've ran like this:

S: 7 (longer run)

M: 4 (recovery)

T: 4.5

W: 5

T: 5.5

F: 5

S: 4.5

On another topic, when the weather will be colder, maybe you try running in heavy boots. It should make easier to jump in the races.

Best post I've read on LetsRun in a very long time. This guy gets it.

We're rooting for you, man. Get after it.

If this is not a troll thread I'd like to agree with the poster above this one... love the attitude. You can't do what you are trying to do when you are 40 so go for it!

That said, my personal feeling is that you need to do more mileage (37 miles in not enough) and you need to do a good chunk of it at as tempo/threshold work. I am not sure what your plan is or where you are on it at this point of your training but 70 mins does not qualify as a 'long run' in my training book. Just my opinion though. Good luck!

Agree entirely. I love the attitude and the shoot high mentality. But as I mentioned earlier, if you're shooting for national class goals (8:25 SC), you've got to run like a national class runner. That means significant miles (easily over 70 mpw), dedicated strength and flexibility training, commitment to diet/lifestyle changes, active recovery (ice baths, massage, etc.).Love the effort but still think you need to be realistic in what you're shooting for. Best of luck.

for what it's worth... wrote:

If this is not a troll thread I'd like to agree with the poster above this one... love the attitude. You can't do what you are trying to do when you are 40 so go for it!

That said, my personal feeling is that you need to do more mileage (37 miles in not enough) and you need to do a good chunk of it at as tempo/threshold work. I am not sure what your plan is or where you are on it at this point of your training but 70 mins does not qualify as a 'long run' in my training book. Just my opinion though. Good luck!

Coebra wrote:

Also: I’ve had 4-6 stress fractures.

This is concerning to me. Any idea why you've had so many? I've never had one so I don't have much experience with them.

Your training seems good so far. Like everyone says, it would be nice if you were doing more volume, but given your weakness to stress fractures, being conservative is smart. I once took 6 months to 80 mpw following an injury, and then had the best 3 months of racing in my life.

Also, a word of encouragement: You MIGHT have the talent to do this. And if you never get there, at least you're going to smash a bunch of your PRs along the way. I'm basically trying to do the same thing for the marathon, and my PRs are similar to yours. Good luck.

Seems like it's injury setbacks that limited your running the first time around so staying healthy and getting steady improvements from consistent training has gotta be the key to doing this. Just some thoughts: 1) like jewbacca said, try to figure out why you get the stress fractures and fix it. Make sure you eat enough calcium. 2) be conservative with mileage and workouts: if you are progressing, don't push the envelope to hit some ideal timetable (also consider: if you are progressing to the right level, how much of a disaster would it be if it takes more than 4 years to hit your goal time?), 3) recovery! Workouts are waisted and court injury if you aren't recovering from them. There are going to be days where you've overdone it and an easy run will help you more than a workout. I am convinced that it's not the workouts that separate good coaches from great coaches, it's knowing when to ditch them. 4) keep the faith!

Update #9:

Wow. Didn’t expect so many replies! Thanks to everyone who’s offered encouragement. It’s a nice surprise.

..

RE: eurodonkey

I am currently working with a strength coach to keep my muscles balanced and strong. I agree, I think I need to make my legs stronger than ever.

RE: George IIie

I’m curious about the exact formula you have to calculate consistency; can you post it? Go full math if you have to.

I agree about the importance of consistency; it’s what I don’t have. I think it’s the key to success.

RE: 234324

Thanks man/woman! I appreciate it.

RE: for what it’s worth…

I promise you that I’m not in this for a troll; I’m in this to try and get to the 2020 trials. I understand where you’re coming from—letsrun isn’t exactly the most genuine place. Mileage is slowly moving up as I adapt to it. Long run is moving up to 85min tomorrow and 100min for the last training block.

RE: Thinkaboutit

Thanks. I know about the mileage… I’m trying to work my way up there. currently, my track season should put me consistently around 63-73 miles a week. The next summer ends up around 85-95 working in 5 days of doubles. In short; I hear you, man. Just trying to get up to the mileage safely.

RE: jewbacca

No real idea about the volume of stress fractures, other than doing easy runs too quickly and having a poor diet. I do my easy runs slower now and take a hell of a multi-vitamin (Hammer Nutrition premium insurance caps).

Do I have the talent for it? I expect to find out. Thanks for the word of encouragement.

If you’re going for the same thing in the Marathon, I wish you the best of luck. Life’s too short to wonder what it would have been like if we had just “went for it”.

RE: test2

I am working tirelessly on all four of your points!

Update #10:

..

Week Report:

End of the training block! First recovery week that I’ve actually… tried to recover on. Ended up doing a 3k time trial on the track on Wednesday and ran a 9:55. Blazing, I know. Anyways, feel kind of… recovered… I guess. I don’t know. I had felt more alert at work a few of the days and felt pretty fresh going into Wednesday. Paces were quicker than past weeks but that’s not terribly different from last week.

At any rate, the week’s over. Here’s the results:

S: 56min 7.66mi

M: 24min 3.1mi

T: 31min 4.17mi

W: 35min: 15min up, 3k TT in 9:55, 10min down, total: 5.65mi

R: 30min, 3.92mi

F: 30min, 3.94mi

S: 30min, 3.96mi

Total: 236min, 32.4mi

..

So, some of the workout times are a bit wonky; I basically took last week’s volume and multiplied it by 0.8 to get 80% of the previous week’s mileage. I kept the strange numbers as a reminder of what the goal of the week was. Wednesday was supposed to be 40 but I was running behind (heh) so I cut it a bit short and made up for it on Thursday. Overall, feeling good. Nice to see the pace dropping even though I’m keeping it relatively easy.

Calves have been sore since Wednesday but overall no huge soreness remaining from the TT. Luckily, weekly massage was scheduled for Wednesday night.

Okay, now, the elephant in the room. The Time Trial.

Context: In the past year, I’ve done one 200 workout (6 x 200on, off) in prep for a mile race in February (4:35 full mile) and I was planning on doing more but winter got in the way and I didn't have access to any indoor facilities anymore. Anyways, even looking back to last September, there is still a total of one speed workout and one mile race. I haven’t even really done strides consistently. So, for racing only once in the past year (half marathon non-withstanding) and for only running 288 miles so far, I don’t think 9:55 is that bad. At least I know I can push myself for a solo 3k on the track after standing all day at HS xc practice.

Big week coming up tomorrow. Really excited for jump in mileage. Going to be cautious, though, and just let things play out. If they go the same as the last training block, I don’t think I’ll have much to worry about.

Week ahead:

S: 85min (Long)

M: 35min (Recovery)

T: 50min (M-pace if feel good)

W: 60min (Secondary)

R: 35min (Recovery)

F: 50min (M-pace if feel good)

S: 35min (Recovery)

Total: 350min, est. 43-50mi (Totally depends on pace)

..

So, finally have a Long long run and a decent secondary run. I’m happier that I’m doing a more of the longer runs instead of just doing a bunch of 30s and 35s. It’s all good, though. Just more bricks in the wall.

Cobra,

Sorry I missed your response from a few weeks back. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. I believe it is good to have goals, but you are so far from the prize that a more measured approach would be to your advantage. Goals should be specific, measurable and have a time for execution. To do otherwise is just day dreaming.

Another point, rather than take a Joe Rubio article or other book as your guide, why not join the Aggies or some other training group. You are going to need some help pushing yourself, getting into meets, camaraderie, objective criticism.

I wish you well.

Igy

Update #11:

Replies:

Ghost of Igoli:

So, looking back at this after writing it (about a day later), yeah. I got pretty worked up. I would like to apologize beforehand: I don’t mean any ill-will towards you, Igoli. Fvck, I don’t even know you. I probably misunderstood what you wrote here and I don’t think you mean any harm when you post. I don’t know what it is about your posts that get me so worked up but yeah.

I’m going to leave the rest, because as a guy who writes for fun, I’ve noticed that something special happens when you write with feeling. Plus, b!tches love rants.

..

RE: Ghost of Igoli:

First things first: Thank you for your input. At the very least, you are challenging my ideas; something that I appreciate as it makes me rethink why I do things.

Next: Going a bit out of order; on the question of Joining the Aggies/a team/whatever: Short Answer is that I can’t. Yes, I physically could, but I don’t feel I need too and there are other considerations that keep me from moving to Texas (financial and family reasons, I also coach HS xc+tf). Right now, I’m able to fit everything in with room to spare, and that spare time I intend on filling up with doubles when I reach the mileage. Additionally, I have a strength coach, a masseuse, and a chiropractor all within 5 min of me.

This ties in with what you mention about goals: yes, yes, yes. Specific, Measurable, Attainable, blah, blah, blah. As a business major and now an employee who’s been through too much culture training and read too many studies on GE, yes I know about goals.

I don’t need any of that.

Here’s my thoughts: I have the end point, right? 8:25. Steeple Trials. What do I have to do to get there? I have to train my body to be able to run 8:25. What’s the limiting factor here? My body.

So now I know what I have to do, I have to train my body to make it faster.

How do I do that? Easy miles, tempo runs, vo2 max intervals, speedwork, etc. We’re together on this so far, right?

Notice how I didn’t even mention ANY times for ANY distance OTHER THAN the primary goal. This is because race times are a RESULT. They are the REWARD for all the hard, consistent work you put in. Whether or not I set a mid-term goal is irrelevant. Whether I have it or not, I’ll still be focusing on the process, which is really what helps you run faster.

Besides, fact is, I can set a “reasonable” mid-term goal to run x.xx in the xxxxx meter run or whatever but you know what? Why limit myself? Why say, “oh, I want to run 4 min this year in the 15!” When, A: I don’t, and B: I might be able to run faster?

I’m not in this $hit anymore because I want to set mediocre small goals and achieve them. To me, that’s playing it safe. That $hit is all around me and it pisses me off. I’m typing this at work right now and there’s a lady a few cubicles over talking about putting banana peels in the ground next to your rose bushes, or some other bull$hit I couldn’t give two fvcks about. SHE has small, intermediate goals. Why distract myself from what I’m really after, my true goal, by setting some smaller fake goal?

People say that, “Oh, you have to set smaller goals along the way,” or “You have to, blah, blah, blah,” and you know why they say that? I think that’s because they can’t handle the long term. They don’t have the willpower to wake up every morning, before the sun is up, and do a run, or do sit ups/pushups/core/whatever. They don’t want something so bad that they will hurt for it, get out of bed early for it, or dedicate a short part of their life to achieving it.

So, let’s go back to the first part. What is my goal? Make the Olympic Trials by running 8:25 in the Steeplechase. I have 3 years, 8 months, and 27 days to achieve it. How’s that for specific, measurable, and a timeline for execution?

Update #12:

Week Report:

S: 85min, 11.06mi

M: 39min, 5.09mi

T: 50min, 6.4mi (watch died, estimated time)

W: 60min, 7.78mi (session with strength coach today)

R: 36min, 4.69mi

F: 50min, 6.52mi

S: 35min, 4.24mi

Total: 355min, 45.76mi

..

Long run went really well; I was initially a bit worried about how it would go after taking such a light week but I handled it nicely. Was a little bit tough to hold a good pace towards the end of the long run so I just slowed down slightly to keep good form. Pretty chill week mostly; did strength training on Wednesday and it destroyed my glutes, hamstrings, and hip adductors.

Soreness still going strong on Saturday.

Good week overall; just trying to adjust to the volume. Probably not going to get workouts in during this and the next block. Not really a big deal; in this plan, the volume is key during the fall—keep the volume for track but make it faster.

Yeah, so, yeah. I’m too tired to think of anything else. Pace was good this week. How I handled the week was very encouraging. I’m excited for next week!

Nice work, excited to see your progression.

Coebra,

OK. I chuckled about the banana peel gal. Anyway, my background is I coached for 19 years at the collegiate level after running in two Olympic Trials in the marathon. I no longer coach on a formal basis.

After reading your response you appear to have quite a bit of drive. I chased a similar dream in the 1970s. So good for you. Any of my responses come from the heart and are unfiltered.

Best of luck. I follow your progress.

Igy

Coebra,

Why'd you settle on Hammer for your multivitamin? All I know about them is that they were sued a while back for allegedly contaminating their supplements with testosterone. I'm no expert on nutrition (so it'd be great if someone who actually knows about nutrition can weigh in here) but personally I'd just go with centrum and put the money I saved toward something else (maybe replacing my shoes more often).

Again, I'm no nutrition expert, but since we're on the subject, I've read the following about vitamins:

1) there was a US military study of stress fractures in recruits that found that healthy people getting enough calcium really didn't ever get stress fractures in basic training. That's why I brought up calcium before.

2) Calcium inhibits iron absorption. Since both are important to a runner, it's probably best to take a multivitamin that contain calcium but doesn't contain iron (kids vitamins for instance don't have iron) then take iron separately at the opposite end of the day.

Update #13:

Replies:

@Whatbro?: Thanks; hopefully I can live up to the hype, lol

@Ghost of Igoli: Again, sorry for being a twat. I just get a little worked up sometimes. I am interested in your background, though; what dream were you chasing in the 70s? Mile? 5k? 10k? And then the marathon? It sounds really close to the half-baked plan I had in mind. Would you be willing to share?

@test2: I’ve just used hammer products before and I like how focused they are. Additionally, they have a wide variety of items to choose from that are all pretty good quality. The lawsuit in question was from 2008, from three athletes testing positive in 2003. It was for a completely different product. I don’t know the outcome, but that’s the only incident. As far as nutrients go; so far, so good. Only the muscles are sore!

..

Week Report:

S: 85min, 10.6mi

M: 36.5min, 4.375mi (strides?)

T: 50min, 6.67mi (at meet, ran around course)

W: 60min, 7.73mi

R: 36min, 4.69mi (strides)

F: 50min, 6.6mi

S: 35min, 4.37mi

Total: 352.5min, 45.04mi

..

Ran my long run up at a relative’s place; they have a big nature preserve over there and it has a bunch of nice loops. Fvcked up the route a bunch of times so my first loop of the park was a little slow—also went up to the highest point to climb a big observation tower. Loved the terrain and felt good, so not worried about pace. My HR was definitely up.

Rest of the week went pretty well; got all of the volume in okay and even felt good enough to do strides a couple of days. Wednesday and on-wards my right quad has been tight and sore so I’ve stayed away from anything more serious than a steady easy pace and strides.

Legs are getting better with each passing week and I feel stronger with every passing day. I love getting in these 50 and 60 minute runs because when you get to the end of them, you really feel like you did some work. having not run 7-8 miles at a time for a while, it feels great to do it again.

All the places that I used to have soreness are better and I’m pretty excited for the long run tomorrow. If it’s anything like last week I’m going to have a great run. A bit nervous to see how this ice bath will turn out; it’s going to be 45 degrees tomorrow when I take it and the ice bath is basically in a shed. But, I will have some hot tea to hold me over and warm, dry clothes to change into immediately.

Tl:dr: good week, another brick in the wall

Coebra,

In 1972 I qualified for my first Olympic Trials in the marathon, it was my first marathon race and ran 2:22:20. In 1974, I was 13th in the Boston Marathon running 2:19:15. Later that year I got married and the wife and the next year we were somewhat vagabonds. We were living in different places Lake Tahoe and Fort Collins for most of the time. Chased the dream of just running and racing. One week in Tahoe I ran 175 miles in triple workouts. The results were mixed I ran 2:20:55 and qualified for my second Olympic Trials. I had a top ten US time in 1973, 1974 and 1975. I never ran all that well in Olympic years, but those years were self coached. It was an experience I will never forget. The years gave me valuable experience for my coaching career. My wife and I are still married and think fondly of those days.

I believe these will be times you will treasure later in life. Never intended to discourage, only to challenge. The coach in me remains.

Igy

Is this a joke?

You won't even make the US Olympic Trials

Update #14:

Replies:

@Igoli:

Keep challenging, man. I need it. Don’t worry about me getting butt hurt about it—that’s my problem, lol.

..

Week Report:

S: 85min, 11.47mi

M: 35min, 4.49mi

T: off, injury

W: off, injury

R: 35min, 4.37mi

F: 50min, 6.53mi

S: 35min, 4.52mi

Total: 240min, 31.38mi

..

Long run went well, except the last 30 minutes where my right quad started to get really sore. Fast, hard, run; felt good, minus the quad.

Monday’s run was pretty rough; not pace wise but the right quad kept bothering me. Decided to take the next two days off to see if I could get it to heal up. Strength sessions on Monday and Wednesday were addressing this issue and it is believed to be a hip imbalance.

The old injury evasion fandango. Does it ever end?

Run on Thursday went really well. Quad was fine and hip was tight at its worst. Same story on Friday. Saturday morning, was rolling out before the run and on a whim, foam rolled the tensor fascia latae. It’s a strip of beef jerky that runs along outside-front-top of the hip (I had to look up the name of it). Anyways, rolled that and the glute medius out and it felt like it made a world of difference.

Bottom line, I feel like I sacrificed two days here to gain weeks in the future. It’s probably going to be touch and go for this next block of training and having this small issue has helped remind me what’s the focus here. The focus is to establish a volume of running and get acclimated to it. It's why I'm not too concerned about pace; pace doesn't matter right now, volume does. Ready for a rest week and then onto the next jump in mileage.

RE: rest week; think I will forego the time trial; It’s more of a luxury item as opposed to being a critical part of the training program. If anything, I feel as if I should try to include more strides.