Ritz- Best All-Around Distance Runner In U.S. History?

History Lesson.

Alberto Salazar held the American Records in the 5K, 10K and marathon at the same time. In 1982, he was world ranked in all three events [5K-8th; 10K-2nd; Marathon-1st]. That year, he won the Boston Marathon, New York Marathon (his third in a row) and finished 2nd at the World Cross Country Championships.

He also won the Comrades Ultramarathon.

Most of you are missing the point of this thread: Ritz's range, from a strictly time standpoint, tops all of these guys. Lagat doesn't have it over 5000, Solinsky's range only goes up to 10000, Rupp hasn't proven himself, from a time standpoint, over half marathon or marathon yet. Based on his personal bests, yes, he's the best all-around American.

People like Shorter and Salazar are not included in this because their times are not competitive. They had better careers and would rank higher in an all-time list based on their accomplishments, most likely, but this is a thread strictly based on fastest times.

Ritz has a special quality that allows him to push beyond the limits. You can see it when he runs. It's similar to Radcliffe. If he couldn't do that we wouldn't compare him to Rupp, Lagat, Kennedy, etc.

not yet wrote:

He finished sixth at Worlds when he ran the 27:22 (the only other American who has finished that high over 10000 meters at a global championship since the 1970's is Galen Rupp), beating a few guys who have run low 27 or under 27. It was very warm that day and given it wasn't a time trial, it's easily worth low 27's.

Sure, I think everyone would agree that Ritz would have run a lot faster than 27:22 in 2009 in the right race. But if you're going to say his 27:22 underrates him in the 10,000, you should also recognize his 12:56 overrates him in the 5000. Hiss 12:56 in Zurich played out ideally for him when the field strung out and the pace was perfect for him at the back of the pack. Through the second half of the race, he picked off the people in front of him one by one and ran an even paced sub 13 that you just don't see in a Diamond League race. Post 2009 (when Bekele was no longer dominant) there probably hasn't been a race that went out that fast and didn't fall off in the middle, except maybe 2012 in Paris.

dasfdsa wrote:

Most of you are missing the point of this thread: this is a thread strictly based on fastest times.

This is stupid. Who would 99.9% of people think is better, someone with top-10 times at a lot of distances and zero records, significant wins or medals; or someone with championship medals, an American Record or two, and many head-to-head wins?

Travesty wrote:

asfadfsf wrote:

*Fifth fastest time in U.S. history over two miles at 8:11 (his time converts to 7:35-7:36 over 3000 meters which would rank him about seventh all-time over that distance...pretty impressive for someone who never broke 4 minutes for the mile or hit the 1500 equivalent)

*Third fastest time over 5000 meters at 12:56

*Sixth fastest time over 10000 meters at 27:22 (he probably would be ranked third over 10000 meters if he'd run a time trial over the distance when he was in 12:56 5000 meter shape. One would think he could have run under 27)

*Second fastest time over half marathon at 60 minutes on the dot

*Third fastest time over the marathon at 2:07:47

Other runners have more impressive performances in each event, but none of them are ranked as high as Ritz across the spectrum.

Was frank shorter any good at the mile? Otherwise he'd be up there too

Frank Shorter was American indoor 2 mile record holder. Also, won 4 consecutive national x-c titles when it was held in November.

TrackBot! VDOT 70

asfadfsf wrote:

*Fifth fastest time in U.S. history over two miles at 8:11 (his time converts to 7:35-7:36 over 3000 meters which would rank him about seventh all-time over that distance...pretty impressive for someone who never broke 4 minutes for the mile or hit the 1500 equivalent)

*Third fastest time over 5000 meters at 12:56

*Sixth fastest time over 10000 meters at 27:22 (he probably would be ranked third over 10000 meters if he'd run a time trial over the distance when he was in 12:56 5000 meter shape. One would think he could have run under 27)

*Second fastest time over half marathon at 60 minutes on the dot

*Third fastest time over the marathon at 2:07:47

Other runners have more impressive performances in each event, but none of them are ranked as high as Ritz across the spectrum.

Let's see...Rupp. Better. The almost equally hated Alan Webb...better all around range. Not as good a career some may say, but a better all around runner for sure. Nope. Ritz is definitely not the best.

Wrong. A 2:07+ is special, in contention or not. Dathan is running against some very rare athletes, with genes (among other things) that are freakish. To run a marathon in 2:04 flat or faster marathon has been done 7 times I believe. Rip his marathon pr all you want as even if he had run 2:06 flat, you'd still be ripping him.

Bring Back the 880 wrote:

Depends how much you value XC.

Rupps marathon win puts him way ahead of Ritz at that distance. (207 isn't that special if you are never in contention).

dasfdsa wrote:

Most of you are missing the point of this thread: Ritz's range, from a strictly time standpoint, tops all of these guys. Lagat doesn't have it over 5000, Solinsky's range only goes up to 10000, Rupp hasn't proven himself, from a time standpoint, over half marathon or marathon yet. Based on his personal bests, yes, he's the best all-around American.

People like Shorter and Salazar are not included in this because their times are not competitive. They had better careers and would rank higher in an all-time list based on their accomplishments, most likely, but this is a thread strictly based on fastest times.

If the thread is strictly about fastest times, then it shouldn't have been titled Best All-Around Distance Runner.

"Ritz- Best All-Around Distance Runner In U.S. History?"

No.

dasfdsa wrote:

Most of you are missing the point of this thread: Ritz's range, from a strictly time standpoint, tops all of these guys. Lagat doesn't have it over 5000, Solinsky's range only goes up to 10000, Rupp hasn't proven himself, from a time standpoint, over half marathon or marathon yet. Based on his personal bests, yes, he's the best all-around American.

People like Shorter and Salazar are not included in this because their times are not competitive. They had better careers and would rank higher in an all-time list based on their accomplishments, most likely, but this is a thread strictly based on fastest times.

So, what you are saying is that Ritz is an over-rated time trialer that could never perform on the biggest stage when it counted?

He was the country's best 4th place runner.

Francie Larrieu-Smith.

Five Olympic teams (1972, 1976, 1980, 1988, 1992)

21 national championships (all disciplines)

13 world indoor records (her indoor mile beat the outdoor record)

35 American records

6-time USA 1500m champion (1972, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980)

2-time USA 3000m champion (1979, 1982

1-time USA 10,000m champion (1985)

1-time USA 10K road champion (tie)

4-time USA Indoor mile champion (1975, 1977, 1978, 1979)

2-time USA Indoor 2-mile champion (1977, 1981)

2-time AAU cross-country champion (1973, 1974)

World Cup 1977: silver, 1500m

World Cup 1991: silver, marathon

World 15K championships: silver (1990)

Personal bests:

800m -- 2:00.22 (1976)

1500m -- 4:05.09 (1976)

Mile -- 4:27.52 (1979)

3000m -- 8:50.54 (1985)

2 miles -- 9:38.1i (1981)

5000m -- 15:15.2 (1988)

10,000m -- 31:28.92 (1991)

Marathon-- 2-27:35 (1991)

2nd, London Marathon, 1990 (2:28:01)

2nd, Houston Marathon, 1986 (2:33:37)

3rd, Olympic Trials Marathon, 1992 (2:30:39)

12th, Barcelona Olympic Marathon (2:41:09)

Youngest-ever USA female Olympic 1500m runner

Oldest-ever USA female track athlete, any event

You do know Galen is also like a 3:52-3 miler?

Only thing ritz has is 5k barley, half marathon barley, and rupp hasn't done a marathon legit with pace setters and fast runners....

wut.

Rupp has run 3:50.92, obviously. (See above.)

Rupp may have some barley, but does he have hops?

Frank Shorter finished 1st in the Olympic Marathon and 5th in the Olympic 10,000 meters in the same Olympics. Until Rupp or Ritz does that, Shorter will be superior.

Shorter even came back 4 years later to earn a silver medal in the Marathon only losing to a doper East German.

Shorter was ranked #1 in the world 3 times in the marathon and #2 twice. He was ranked #2 in the World in the 10,000 meters twice and #5 twice.

This is better than Rupp or Ritz in whatever they consider their 2 best events.

Shorter is the greatest American male distance runner in history.

Short and simple wrote:

Frank Shorter finished 1st in the Olympic Marathon and 5th in the Olympic 10,000 meters in the same Olympics. Until Rupp or Ritz does that, Shorter will be superior.

Shorter even came back 4 years later to earn a silver medal in the Marathon only losing to a doper East German.

Shorter was ranked #1 in the world 3 times in the marathon and #2 twice. He was ranked #2 in the World in the 10,000 meters twice and #5 twice.

This is better than Rupp or Ritz in whatever they consider their 2 best events.

Shorter is the greatest American male distance runner in history.

The problem is, Ritz or Rupp would clean Shorter's clock at literally any distance. Unless you're that kind of guy who thinks that Emil Zatopek is the greatest distance runner ever? In which case, sure, maybe Shorter's the greatest American.