Jess Andrews 90 sec PB! makes Team GB Oly Squad!!! Miracles do happen

Metric Miler wrote:

What is even funnier is quite a few people here will claim to have had large performance increases like Jess (5%) across their careers and put those down to training or other factors. Yet the same people can't stomach it happening to someone else without PEDs.

She hasn't broken the WR here, just got inside the Oly Q time.

This is confusing MM - you are usually the first person to call doping on any performance you don't like the look of. Now you are telling others off for doing the same...

MetricHalfMiler wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

What is even funnier is quite a few people here will claim to have had large performance increases like Jess (5%) across their careers and put those down to training or other factors. Yet the same people can't stomach it happening to someone else without PEDs.

She hasn't broken the WR here, just got inside the Oly Q time.

This is confusing MM - you are usually the first person to call doping on any performance you don't like the look of. Now you are telling others off for doing the same...

Am I? Really? I think I defend athletes far more often than accuse them on this forum. I have quite a consistent stance on this matter as I have stated before, doping accusations need to go hand in hand with evidence. The performance itself is nearly always circumstantial evidence and not proof of anything in particular.

With regard to my comments about African runners I would like to firstly remind you all that I am half African. Racism claims are ill-founded.

I would then secondly reiterate that I have not accused any individual from the Continent of Africa as being a doper because they are African.

I will then continue to say that a country such as Kenya or Russia having a very poor anti-doping record puts all their athletes under some form of suspicion unless evidence concerning an individual can convince a reasonable person otherwise. This is common sense and is the approach WADA has taken with Russia.

So Russia, known dopers, big pool of athletes, 2 1/3 times larger population than UK, known to dope at previous Sochi and London Olympics.

Yet beaten in medal table for 2012 London Golds by little old UK and all above board. Even close in overall medals, well done, and no hint of any cheating or if anyone questions someone its because they don't understand that the UK is above that sort of thing, pathetic !

This idea that she wasn't training hard or exposed to high level training before is pretty stupid. Anyone who knows anything would know that the Aldershot group (who she trained with before going off to Spain) is infamous for how hard they train (and as a result that might pack it in) and how competitive the group is.

beyond belief wrote:

So Russia, known dopers, big pool of athletes, 2 1/3 times larger population than UK, known to dope at previous Sochi and London Olympics.

Yet beaten in medal table for 2012 London Golds by little old UK and all above board. Even close in overall medals, well done, and no hint of any cheating or if anyone questions someone its because they don't understand that the UK is above that sort of thing, pathetic !

Once again, winning is not a sign of doping. Lots of proven dopers lose.

The UK has among the best anti-doping programme in the world. British athletes are tested often, have a very comprehensive put of competition programme including a 'whereabouts' system.

I wish Morocco would clean up it's act also because the reputations of runners like Iguider, who I really like, are tainted by it's poor record.

the uk anti doping organisation knew about a doping doctor and got hints about him, but still did nothing. the british increase in medals and a leading role out of the blue,for example the tour de france are enough reasons to misstrust them

It really is painful this belief that UK has a great anti-doping program. They test a lot of athletes yes, but if you really think this is going to catch what is going on, I give up. Its tick box exercise, never question or try anything out of the standard test protocol. And certainly never delve very deep if anyone volunteers info / legitimate questions.

beyond belief wrote:

It really is painful this belief that UK has a great anti-doping program. They test a lot of athletes yes, but if you really think this is going to catch what is going on, I give up. Its tick box exercise, never question or try anything out of the standard test protocol. And certainly never delve very deep if anyone volunteers info / legitimate questions.

You don't know ANYTHING.

Do not pretend you do.

Conspiracy theorists are idiots 99% of the time.

Kenya and Russia have poor anti-doping controls and had lots of athletes caught doping by external authorities. Britain has a good anti-doping system and has had very few athletes caught by external authorities. FACTS.

I won't entertain fanciful ideas about the UK bribing WADA and the IAAF etc. It's bullshit and you are an idiot.

aldershattered wrote:

This idea that she wasn't training hard or exposed to high level training before is pretty stupid. Anyone who knows anything would know that the Aldershot group (who she trained with before going off to Spain) is infamous for how hard they train (and as a result that might pack it in) and how competitive the group is.

And how often did she break down from the training? Maybe it has taken her 3 years to figure out how to survive it.

But lets say she is a doper. What do you think she took that dropped 90s in a month and why wasn't she taking it earlier?:)

Metric miler you are an arse . Who mentioned conspiracy theories. The athletes are ahead of the testers, you have to be incompetent to be caught in a doping test or doing it on the cheap . And how many times do you think individual athletes training out in the remote corners of the world are tested.

Its all the Russians and Kenya is it , you wont entertain fanciful ideas ! You sir are an ignorant first class arse

She came 2nd in her race was over a minute behind 1st and about 10 seconds in front of the 3rd place. It would be hard to time trial that through to full potential. Maybe she could have run a 32:40 or 50 back then but didn't need to.

beyond belief wrote:

Metric miler you are an arse . Who mentioned conspiracy theories. The athletes are ahead of the testers, you have to be incompetent to be caught in a doping test or doing it on the cheap . And how many times do you think individual athletes training out in the remote corners of the world are tested.

Its all the Russians and Kenya is it , you wont entertain fanciful ideas ! You sir are an ignorant first class arse

I've just been on Katerina Johnson Thompson's Twitter. She says how she has been randomly selected for 3 out of competition drugs tests in the last 2 weeks. I wonder how many out of season drugs tests Kenya and Russia have performed in the last two weeks?

Oh right, none. They don't have a programme and Russia notifies it's athletes in advance anyway.

Come and live in the real world. Been watching the news? Russia just got another FOURTEEN athletes busted. You are talking out of your arse about things you clearly don't understand.

It is 'cool' around here to pretend the UK is just as bad as the countries with terrible doping history's because you want to pretend there is some advanced system going on where the athletes can beat the testers and nobody really gets tested it's just a 'tick box exercise' - conspiracy rubbish.

The truth is plain to see. Many athletes from Kenya and Russia get caught by the IOC and IAAF because they don't get tested in the off season and use drugs. Journalistic reports have shown widespread doping in both countries and we get lots of athletes caught from both.

I'm sorry if you are Kenyan or Russian but this is the truth. Deal with it.

I am beyond belief.

Only on Letsrun, a site that is full of people who claim to out 'dopers' (mostly Mo Farah and Rupp), would I meet people DEFENDING Russia and Kenya, two countries that have had tons of athletes officially caught cheating recently.

Insanity.

Metric Miler wrote:

Exactly, an improvement from 33:20 to 31:58 wouldn't be blinked at if done by an African athlete in a diamond league or similar.

Literally, runners that most have not heard of make those kind of improvements (~5%) all the time. We have 'junior' Kenyans running 1:43/1:44 just a year after running 1:48+ and that is at a much higher level than this ~32 min 10k.

It is simply because of the circumstances (Oly trials) that anyone is being suspicious at all.

There is no good evidence she is doping at all. A big improvement and a great run, I wish her well in Rio.

You think people improve all the time by 1:22 in the span of a month?? That's crazy. The reason why it's such a big story is this woman SHOCKED the uk.

In the US. she might not have even been in the Trials with that time.

There is a huge difference in improving 1:22 or 5% in a year and in a month.

Rojo. I think I might agree with you!

However, you better not be saying Metric Miler could be w…..

If Jess Andrews had run the same 33:21 10k time from last month she would of placed 9th at the British 10k Olympic trials. She improved from 33:21 to 31:58 in 1 month and ran away from Kate Avery, Beth Potter and Linet Masai while winning the British 10k Olympic trials.

If an unknown US runner showed the same 1:23 amount of improvement in 1 month and won the US 10k Olympic Trials while running away from Shalane Flanagan and Molly Huddle, there would be suspicion and talk. If that unknown runner was also living in Spain with her professional cyclist boyfriend at the same time, it would lead to even more talk.

Just a few questions:

1) How many times has Jess Andrews been tested in OOC testing by UKAD and/or IAAF in the last year?

2) Any OOC test in the last month before the trials?

3) Any OOC test while living in Spain?

4) Can anyone find out the answers to these questions?

Wowzers wrote:

I'm a uk distance runner and clued up fan, I had little to no idea who Jess Andrews is, she just destroyed the world champion over 10k on the track in a track 10k running an 83 sec pb on a less than ideal night.

She won the Southern XC title at Parly Hill in 2014 amonst other good runs that year so you aren't that clued up. If you have ever run areas or nats on that course you should know how tough that is.

Since then she's pretty much only raced in Spain so a bit under the radar.

10k progression for Jessica Andrews:2012- 36:582014- 33:542015- 33:512016- 33:21 April 6 - 33:33 April 24 - 31:58 May 21http://www.runbritainrankings.com/runners/profile.aspx?athleteid=81887

The Scot wrote:

Wowzers wrote:

I'm a uk distance runner and clued up fan, I had little to no idea who Jess Andrews is, she just destroyed the world champion over 10k on the track in a track 10k running an 83 sec pb on a less than ideal night.

She won the Southern XC title at Parly Hill in 2014 amonst other good runs that year so you aren't that clued up. If you have ever run areas or nats on that course you should know how tough that is.

Since then she's pretty much only raced in Spain so a bit under the radar.

In my other posts I have written about how we do not know even a quarter of the story, and it is very likely that the run one month previous was simply not to her full potential. She could have got the pacing wrong, not tried her best; we have no idea. Then she runs what appears on paper to be a big PB at the Olympic trials and everyone is shocked. If she had broken through in a race in Spain we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Everyone is acting as if she ran a perfectly paced, maximal race in April, and actually improved by that much in a short space of time.

You know as well as I do that there is no drugs or training method that could achieve that performance increase so quickly in an individual that has already been training for a few years.

Her 33:30 road 10k indicates she was in potentially 32:30ish track shape in April, then over one month she improved a bit and I'm sure at the Olympic trials she put in far more effort than the road 10k where she was first female anyway.

Also you said it yourself, she might not even have made the US trials. She hasn't improved from 31:30 to 30:00 here. This is still all at a sub elite level and 4.2% improvements across 6 weeks do happen there all the time across a range of distances.

Metric Miler says:

You know as well as I do that there is no drugs or training method that could achieve that performance increase so quickly in an individual that has already been training for a few years.

Are you sure about that Metric Miler?

EPO and/or an autologous blood transfusion could achieve that performance increase that quickly in an individual that has already been training for a few years.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3623787

A 5.9% performance increase by an autologous blood transfusion measured at 3 hours after the transfusion and a 3.7% performance increase measured at 14 days after the transfusion.