Kipchoge is the GROAT 🐐 (Greatest Range of All Time.)

How'd the OP get that emoji in the subject?

Seyta wrote:

If Gebrselassie was hitting his prime now, Bekele's records would be gone. The reason Gebrselassie didn't run faster was that he didn't have to. Every time a challenger broke his record (Komen, Tergat, Kiptanui, Hissou), Gebrselassie pushed himself until he took it back. The only reason he couldn't do the same to Bekele was that 6 years had gone by and he had grown too old to do so. ...

MAYBE

Geb broke Komen's 5000m by less than 0.4 sec. it's fair to say Geb may well have never run faster than this time regardless who came along.

The earlier part of your argument works both ways .... Geb ran in arguably the strongest era of distance running, when legions of Africans (and others) threw everything at almost every race ... I'd say he was pretty maxed out accordingly.

... Modern runners, Kipchoge included, no longer even dream of achieving his times.

Yes and no .. Kipchoge just broke Geb's marathon best by nearly a minute.

14386125839 wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Yes, Aouita's 5000 pr is very impressive in that Choge has ran faster only 4 times.

Laughable coment. The combination of PBs over 800m and 5000m was the subject.

Btw, Aouita has run 7 times faster over 800m then Choge's PB.

The subject is who has greater range, moron, not who does better at whatever cherry-picked distances are important to you. Right between 800 and 5000 sits the 3000, and don't try to say Choge doesn't dominate Aouita there.

But in your stupid 800-and-5000-only contest, Choge has rarely ran the 800 at all, whereas Aouita has ran the 5000 lots of times and is still 5 seconds slower.

The facts, bub:

800: Aouita slightly faster

1500: about dead even

3000: Choge slightly faster (much faster considering Aouita was only under 7:32 once, despite many attempts)

5000: Choge much faster.

Choge GROAT, Aouita 2GROAT but DQ'd for doping.

When Kipchoge gets number one world rankings in the 800, 1500, mile, 3000, 5k, and 10k in his career....then he will have matched Said Aouita for range.

Aouita had the greatest range of all time regarding PEDs use!

Bad Wigins wrote:

14386125839 wrote:

Laughable coment. The combination of PBs over 800m and 5000m was the subject.

Btw, Aouita has run 7 times faster over 800m then Choge's PB.

The subject is who has greater range, moron, not who does better at whatever cherry-picked distances are important to you. Right between 800 and 5000 sits the 3000, and don't try to say Choge doesn't dominate Aouita there.

But in your stupid 800-and-5000-only contest, Choge has rarely ran the 800 at all, whereas Aouita has ran the 5000 lots of times and is still 5 seconds slower.

The facts, bub:

800: Aouita slightly faster

1500: about dead even

3000: Choge slightly faster (much faster considering Aouita was only under 7:32 once, despite many attempts)

5000: Choge much faster.

Choge GROAT, Aouita 2GROAT but DQ'd for doping.

You are calling me a moron?

YOU have said sub1:44 and sub 13 is MAYBE more impressive than sub 1:45 and sub 12:55.

It's not maybe more impressive, it's obviously more impressive - that's waht I have clarified.

800m: Aouita's PB 0.95% better then Choge's (for you that's slightly faster)

5000m: Choge's PB 0.48% better (for you that's much faster).

Aouita has run 7 times faster over 800m then Choge's PB (not worth mentioning)

Choge has run 3 times (not 4 as you have claimed) faster then Aouita's PB (big thing for you).

Well, in the 3000m Choge's PB is 0.32% better.

Why mentioning that Aouita's mile PB is 1.41% better?

That Aouita can add good PBs for 1000m, 2000m, 2 miles? (which Choge can't)

That Aouita also was the 6th fastest ever over 10000m and can add an international class steeple time?

Well, I know: because Augustine Choge will run sub 2:02 in the marathon if he wishes to do so.

It should be added that in the 1980s, when Aouita ran his times, the level - especially in the long distances - was totally different from the era when Choge run his times.

But you are calling me moron.

Just for your information: Noureddine Morceli has slightly better 800m PB then Choge and MUCH better PBs from 1000m to 3000m. And his 13:03.85 over 5000m was run with an 52.0 last lap.

I (and we) addressed this question three years ago http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5418320Then, I wrote:

ScottEvil wrote:

Kipchoge has perhaps the third greatest RANGE of any distance runner as of yet. Yes obviously Bekele was a more dominant athlete at his peak; Bekele's 6 consecutive 10k titles are nonpareil. But Kipchoge now has the fourth fastest 5k and fourth fastest marathon of all time (and a 7:27/8:07 3k/2 mile combo to boot). Bekele showed more ability across surfaces while Kipchoge is next only to Geb and Tergat when it comes to range.

Now, with London, I think he's 1st place.

ScottEvil wrote:

I (and we) addressed this question three years ago

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5418320

Then, I wrote:

ScottEvil wrote:

Kipchoge has perhaps the third greatest RANGE of any distance runner as of yet. Yes obviously Bekele was a more dominant athlete at his peak; Bekele's 6 consecutive 10k titles are nonpareil. But Kipchoge now has the fourth fastest 5k and fourth fastest marathon of all time (and a 7:27/8:07 3k/2 mile combo to boot). Bekele showed more ability across surfaces while Kipchoge is next only to Geb and Tergat when it comes to range.

Now, with London, I think he's 1st place.

Maybe you can just explain why you think Kipchoge should be ranked ahead of Gebrselassie?

Gebrselassie has (much) faster PBs in the 1500m, 2000m, 3000m, 2 Miles, 5000m, 10000m (over 26s plus for Gebrselassie here), 10k, 15k, 10 Miles and Half-Marathon. Kipchoge in the Mile and in the Marathon.

Looking at the far ends of this spectrum, it's very close and maybe Kipchoge has a small advantage here:

Gebrselassie 3:31.76(i) + 2:03:59

Kipchoge 3:33.20/3:50.40 + 2:03:05

It depends on the way you want to value these numbers, but it's definitely very close. But when looking at all those other PBs - how can you rank Kipchoge ahead of Gebrselassie?

Perhaps you are right. I agree that it is close.

I'm not sure I would characterize many of the gaps between them as big...

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/kenya/eliud-kipchoge-188307

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/ethiopia/haile-gebrselassie-8774

Distance Haile Eliud

3k 7:25:09 7:27.66

5k 12:39.36 12:46.53

HM 58:55 59:25

M 2:03:59 2:03:05

So I think right now, you are right, Haile is probably still #1.

I think Kipchoge will be #1 in range when the dust settles. Perhaps he will attack the HM WR.

Haile was way ahead at the sweet spot in their range, the 10k. But Kipchoge's stellar PRs at everything else suggests he could have done more at the distance if it had been a focus for him.

Incidentally, Kipchoge recently took the crown from Haile as the person with the lowest combined mile and marathon times

http://bringbackthemile.com/news/detail/select_group_only_20_men_have_gone_sub_4_and_sub_210

You just copy a Unicode sysmbol (Unicode is the afterthought fix the rest if the world had to apply when the Yanks got it wrong since early computer came to existence).

And it is not just times, but world records set and championship medals won. How many world records have been set by and how many Olympic or World championship medals does Choge or Kipchoge have compared to Aouita or Geb, respectively? How many are gold medals?

Farah certainly ranks above Aouita in the GROAT discussion.

I'll say it again.

3:28 for 1500m

59:23 for 1/2 marathon

less than 2 months apart!!!

(with 2 world championship titles between the two 5000m and 10000m).

I'd also like to bring up El G into the mix if we are bringing up Aouita.

El G defeated Bekele the 5k world record holder in his prime not once, but twice. 2003 WC (where he lost to Eliud interestingly enough) and the 2004 Olympics.

1500 3:26

3000 7:23 in only attempt

5000 12:50 in WC race.

...

All this to say I still think the final rankings are as such.

1. Geb

2. Kipchoge

3. Farah

4. Bekele (gets the GOAT award though)

5. El G

🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐 Am I doing it right? Awesome.

This all makes sense, but it's predicated on the notion that Kipchoge is misfiring in the big races. He did win the World Championship 5000m in 03. And how many of the big races like that did Geb bail out on?

OG 5000m in 96

WC 5000m in 97

99?

OG 5000m in 2000

Etc

But I think the greater point is that London is the greatest marathon in the world, and has been for some years. It's not like Kipchoge misses his peak ... He wants to win London because it's the marathon that matters. More so than the WC and more so than the OG. For those guys at the very top, London IS "the most important day". It may not be for you, or for me, but we're not running in either of them. :)

Wtfunny wrote:

It's not like Kipchoge misses his peak ... He wants to win London because it's the marathon that matters. More so than the WC and more so than the OG.

And you know this how?

Geb has a world indoor title at 1500m and a world record in the marathon.

But his longevity is more impressive.

20 consecutive years with some kind of world class performance.

And you know this how? wrote:

Wtfunny wrote:

It's not like Kipchoge misses his peak ... He wants to win London because it's the marathon that matters. More so than the WC and more so than the OG.

And you know this how?

He doesn't, he knows sweet FA.

"Kipchoge...once again declaring he badly wanted a ticket to the Rio Olympics. He noted that it is his joy to always carry the national flag high in any competition and the Olympics is no exemption.

The Olympics is a very important competition and if given a chance by Athletics Kenya, I will be happy to represent my country and bring more medals home"

"Kipchoge, who won medals over 5000m at the 2004 and 2008 Olympic Games, is determined to perform well in Rio and told the assembled press in London he would value an Olympic gold medal more than a world record."

I'm sure he'd like an OG gold. And I hope he gets it. He's the greatest marathoner in the world. But his claim to GROATness wont hinge on it.

Hopefully the OG marathon has a great field.

I'd like to have seen what kipchoge could have done in a time trial 1500m-3k in his 5k prime. sub 3:30/7:25?