Interesting but... wrote:
Here is the reason that it is a legitimate PR. THE RACE WAS OPEN TO EVERYONE.
I hereby announce that I will be holding a "half-marathon" in my front yard tomorrow. It may be a little short of 13.1 miles, since my front yard is only about 20 meters long. The race, however, is open to everyone, so PRs will be legitimate. A new world record is expected. No questions or criticism allowed from anyone who doesn't show up.
I think what the other poster is trying to say is that because it is net downhill it is an aided course and so it's not something one would normally claim as a PR. If you ran a downhill road mile and PR'd would you claim that as your mile PR? probably not. I read somewhere that Austin 3M drops 5.4 ft per mile or something? Does anyone know if that drop makes it unusable for record purposes? If it is aided then one has to take their time on that course with a grain of salt. But whatever the case is, the 1:03 performance aided or not aided is still very solid.
For argument's sake, lets say that you raced that downhill mile, but there were four steep uphills on route. Is it not possible that the "downhill" mile could actually be slower than a mile with no net drop and no hills? Obviously, the Austin course is faster than a flat one, but the advantage may not be as large as the 5 ft drop per mile would indicate on the surface, especially if you look at an elevation chart of the race and notice that that there are at least 10 noticeable hills in 13.1 miles. And, btw, I did not compete in the race, I am just looking at the course from an objective point of view.
3M has a GREAT race history. Look at previous top 10 men in each race since 1998.
1998:
1 Jerry Lawson 1:01:43 JACKSONVILLE FL
2 Patrick Kiptum 1:02:04 KENYA
3 Jonathan Ndambuki 1:02:17 KENYA
4 Julius Randich 1:02:17 KENYA
5 Benson Masya 1:02:43 KENYA
6 Bernard Kitur 1:02:56 KENYA
7 Craig Kirkwood 1:04:25 NEW ZEALAND
8 Juan Carlos Chavez 1:04:36 MEXICO
9 Robb Finegan 1:04:40 LINCOLN NE
10 Cosmas Musyoka 1:05:18 KENYA
1999:
1 Andres Espinosa Perez 1:01:16 MEXICO
2 Simon Sawe 1:04:03 KENYA
3 Lazarus Nyakeraka 1:04:21 KENYA
4 Fidel Torres Trejo 1:04:44 MEXICO
5 Simon Peter 1:05:45 TANZANIA
6 Kibet Cherop 1:07:58 KENYA
7 Clint Hosey 1:08:32 AUSTIN TX
8 Rudy Rocha 1:08:45 BAYTOWN TX
9 James Menze 1:09:26 AUSTIN TX
10 Patrick Kiptum 1:10:38 KENYA
2000:
1 William Cheseret 1:02:26 KENYA
2 Juan Martinez 1:02:28 MEXICO
3 Jonathan Ndambuki 1:02:33 KENYA
4 Gregorio Dominguez 1:02:36 MEXICO
5 John Sence 1:03:12 CINCINNATI OH
6 Nicholas Watson 1:05:13 ANN ARBOR MI
7 William Moore 1:06:00 DALLAS TX
8 Filomeno Apodaca 1:06:17 LAS CRUCES NM
9 Jerry Lawson 1:06:47 BOULDER CO
10 Jose Iniguez 1:06:51 MEXICO
2001:
1 Eddy Hellebuyck 1:04:13 ALBUQUERQUE NM
2 John Sence 1:04:17 CINCINATI OH
3 Peter Flemming 1:04:53 COLORADO SPRINGS CO
4 David Hinga 1:05:47 ALBUQUERQUE NM
5 Juan Martinez 1:05:52 MEXICO
6 William Moore 1:06:16 DALLAS TX
7 Serga Karasev 1:06:48 RUSSIA
8 Peter De La Cerda 1:06:51 ALAMOSA CO
9 Filomeno Apodaca 1:06:53 LAS CRUCES
2002:
1 Karl Johan Rasmussen 1:02:11 NORWAY
2 Benson Ogato 1:02:14 KENYA
3 Leonid Shvetsov 1:02:24 RUSSIA
4 Jimmy Herald 1:02:29 KY
5 Juan Martinez 1:02:47 MEXICO
6 Isaac Kariuki 1:03:28 KENYA
7 Simon Sawe 1:05:28 KENYA
8 James Bungei 1:05:37 KENYA
9 Malcolm Campbell 1:06:16 GREAT BRITAIN
10 Naftal Mayoyo 1:07:12 TANZANIA
2003:
1 Andrew Letherby 1:03:31 AUSTRALIA
2 Jim Jurcevich 1:05:00 COLUMBUS OH
3 James Mutuse 1:05:45 KENYA
4 Kim Gillard 1:05:47 AUSTRALIA
5 Gilbert Tuhabonye 1:07:00 AUSTIN TX
6 Eddy Hellebuyck 1:07:01 ALBUQUERQUE NM
7 Peter Fleming 1:07:03 COLORADO SPRINGS CO
8 Dennis Simonaitis 1:07:07 DRAPER UT
9 Peter Delacerda 1:07:13 ALBUQUERQUE NM
10 Paul Zimmerman 1:07:47 CEDAR CREEK TX
2004:
1 John Gwako 1:02:15 KENYA
2 Andrew Letherby 1:02:32 AUSTRALIA
3 Teddy Mitchell 1:04:24 ALBUQUERQUE NM
4 Juan Martinez 1:06:09 MEXICO
5 Gilbert Tuhabonye 1:08:09 AUSTIN TX
6 Ephraim Mokgokhu 1:08:52 DALLAS TX
7 Paul Zimmerman 1:09:01 CEDAR CREEK TX
8 Randy Arias 1:09:13 SAN MARCOS TX
9 Filomeno Apodaca 1:09:32 LAS CRUCES NM
10 Mark Misch 1:09:38 BOLIVAR MO
2005:
1 Brian Sell 1:02:59 MI
2 Jae Yung Hyung 1:04:11 SOUTH KOREA
3 David Galvan 1:04:13 MEXICO
4 Clint Verran 1:04:56 MI
5 James Lander 1:04:56 MI
6 Kyle O'Brien 1:05:01 MI
7 Maciek Miereczko 1:05:10 POLAND
8 Jacob Frey 1:05:15 MI
9 Jacob Rotich 1:06:16 KENYA
10 Chokri Dhaouadi 1:06:27 TUNISIA
I see your point but that's not how the powers-that-be decide it. I mean Boston has some hell hills in there, but it's net downhill and hence not eligible for record purposes. My personal feeling on Austin is that the downhill gains are not so significant and are somewhat mitigated by some little hills, so it's almost like running a flat course. If you had to add on time to make it "legit" I can't imagine it being more than 30sec for someone running under 1:05. But as a runner it would always be in the back of my head that it is slightly downhill and I probably add on any cushion I thought plausible when telling someone my PR. It's like running the 8k at Franklin Park XC, which is like 50m short of an 8k? You kind of take your time there with a grain of salt. Well that's just my take.
I strongly believe that the 3M is a very fair course. Compared to houston that I ran two weeks ago Houston was more challenging. I believe if i did not do not that 1/2 I would have been in the top 5 for sure. Everyone in the top 13 but me did not run a 1/2 to weeks ago.
Legitimate PRs wrote:
Interesting but... wrote:Here is the reason that it is a legitimate PR. THE RACE WAS OPEN TO EVERYONE.
I hereby announce that I will be holding a "half-marathon" in my front yard tomorrow. It may be a little short of 13.1 miles, since my front yard is only about 20 meters long. The race, however, is open to everyone, so PRs will be legitimate. A new world record is expected. No questions or criticism allowed from anyone who doesn't show up.
If it is USATF certified and open to all then it is legit.
Interesting but... wrote:
If it is USATF certified and open to all then it is legit.
You don't know what you're talking about. Certification doesn't imply a record-quality course. Back in the '80s, I raced against a Kenyan named Sam Sitanok (sp?) who had the "world record" for a downhill half-marathon. I don't recall the exact time, but it was much faster than Paul Tergat's current "world best" for the half-marathon. Sammy was a decent runner, but he was no Paul Tergat, even if he ran a 56-minute (or whatever it was) "certified" half-marathon down the side of a mountain.
You couldn't post a 62:59 half marathon if I dropped you from an airplane 13.1 miles up.
I heard that Jacob Frey has a relative overseas who holds the record for most chicks banged in one night! I think his name is like Hans Freysna or something.
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE wrote:
You couldn't post a 62:59 half marathon if I dropped you from an airplane 13.1 miles up.
Actually, I could. And I could probably get it certified as a half-marathon by USATF. But I still wouldn't claim it as a half-marathon PR.
Look, a 62:59 at Austin is a very solid time for all but a handful of Americans these days. It's probably worth close to 64:00 on a fast, record-quality half-marathon course. Nothing wrong with that.
WAH WAH WAH. I DONT LIKE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE HILLS. SOME GO UP AND SOME GO DOWN. WAH WAH WAH. THESE GUYS RAN DOWN SOME HILLS AND IT MAY HAVE MADE THEM RUN FASTER. WAH WAH WAH. I THINK I ACTUALLY SAW SELL USING A WHEELCHAIR DURING THE LONG DOWNHILL STRETCH. WAH WAH WAH. I HEARD HE PUSHED SOME OLD LADY OUT OF THE WAY SAYING, "MOVE IT OR LOSE IT! I GOTTA PR!" WAH WAH WAH.
Geez, lighten up. You sound like Gannon White.
The guy is someone that the Hansons pissed off some where down the line. It is fairly obvious that his/her jealousy is in charge here. The Hansons ran great and added a tremendous amount to the event. We hope they are back again next year. Brian Sell was a very gracious champion. The Hanson Bros. should be proud of what they have created. Their presence created greater buzz and media interest than I ever remember. I have lived in Austin for 11 years.
Sherry Baby wrote:
The guy is someone that the Hansons pissed off some where down the line. It is fairly obvious that his/her jealousy is in charge here. The Hansons ran great and added a tremendous amount to the event. We hope they are back again next year. Brian Sell was a very gracious champion. The Hanson Bros. should be proud of what they have created. Their presence created greater buzz and media interest than I ever remember. I have lived in Austin for 11 years.
Maybe, but if you remember even after last years results were posted, there were the same moaning and groaning about the course. Who cares if someone lists the race as PR? I ran this years race for the first time. I didn't even come close to my PR, but then since my PR is more than 5 years old didn't some genious on this board say I can't count that as a PR anyway? The course is fast, it is downhill. But it's a well organized event. what more can a runner ask for?
I agree. That damn Paula Radcliffe ran a 2:15 at London. Big Deal that course is questionable at best. Fucking Meb got the damn american record at Stanford (everyone knows that is a short track). All those times from the guys in the 80's were run at Boston (back when they didn't even measure the damn thing).
I own every LEGITIMATE world record.
4:17 mile
30:21 10k
By the way I am a male.
PEOPLE ARE ABSOLUTLY STUPID.
If you have ever ran austin....and are not a x-country guy you'll find LOTS of up hills...you can never really get a good stride until the last 3 or so. I think its a very fair course.
Brian Sell is a great talent and a product of a terrific developmental team, Hansons-Brooks ODP run by Kevin and Keith Hanson. He is one of our very good emerging elite athletes.
Brian is clearly capable of running 2:10 or 2:11 on a decent course.
Why don't some of you guys on this web site try to be supportive instead of "knocking" people?
Well done Brian.