Why cant I improve my 800m?

formerD1 wrote:

That's mostly true, but not 100%.

A lot of kids have poor training so they don't actually reach their true 200m ability. I was a moderately successful mid-distance runner, and my 200m time went from around 26 seconds to the 23s after I began a serious strength and speed regimen (I was a 1:50 800m runner in HS).

Another friend of mine was running around 25s in HS (but he also smoked pot, never did anything seriously) then sort of got a kick in the head after graduating from HS and before you know it he ran 4 years 200m varsity at D1 with times in the low 20s.

But yeah, the true 200m runners were just born that way clear as day. 10x200, they will do 22s on the first rep, jog the remaining 8 reps in around 35 seconds and come back and pull out a 21-22s at the end.

I'm afraid I have to disagree.

Of course a person can be trained to run the 200m faster, you even gave examples of this being true.

Speed can be trained and developed just like aerobic ability.

If you trained to be a sprinter you could have brought that 200m pb down even further.

I agree that the event you are most suited to is mostly genetic. That does not mean that a 1:50 800m runner with a 23.5 200m pb cannot train to be faster (strength training, plyometrics, 30/60m sprints, short hills, sled-pulling), run 22.5 and get down to 1:46.

This notion that sprinters are born and distance runners are made isn't true. Natural distance runners are born with a high percentage of slow twitch fibres just as sprinters are born with fast twitch (average human has 50-50). Nobody is truly certain on whether muscle fibres can switch types from fast to slow or vice versa, and pro marathoners have been shown to have up to 80% slow twitch fibres whilst pro sprinters have 80% fast twitch. That would suggest they are born that way.

Kszczo: Moderate milage runner, running above 100km in training camp.

Amos: 80km/week = Moderate

Souleiman (3rd fastest time in 2015): High milage, as a 8/15 runner.

Berian: Strength based coach

Kipketer: Very little known about his training, but its been revelead that he has had training camps with 20km total volume each day. I’d say moderate.

Johnny Gray, American record: Upwards of 80miles

Symmonds: 5-times the US Champion, world silver. Moderate to high.

(God knows how that guy runs fast if his training logs are even remotely true, neither fast nor good endurance. Seems to be hardly working out).

Point is: To suggest you shouldnt be running more than 35mpw/60km and that great 800m runners doesnt do that, is simply wrong. Just have a look at what Canova says:

“There is not a training for 800m. There is a training for some athlete preparing 800m with his specific attitudes.

The training of an athletes type 400-800 (from the past, Rudolf Harbig, Thomas Courtney, Susanj, Fiasconaro, Juantorena, now Rudisha) is very different from the training of athletes type 800-1500 (Peter Snell, Wohlhuter, Coe, Kipketer, Cruz).

So, to look at a "training for 800m" is wrong.

We have athletes,like Coe, WR holder of 800m, winner of 2 Olympic Golds in 1500m, and athletes, like Steve Ovett, WR holder of 1500m, winning Olympic Gold in 800m.

Basically, we can divide the specialist of 800m in two big families : who has LACTIC attitude and high speed, and who has AEROBIC attitude and high endurance.”

And there you have it. OP is not a speed based 800m runner with his slow 400m and it would be wrong to suggest a low-milage program would suit him best for optimal improvement. And regarding your talk about 10 mile aerobic runs “formerD1”, thats not necessary for him to do moderate or more milage.

Regarding not counting warm up and cool down Metric Miler, I disagree. I think its important to count all milage, wether quality or not. It does make a difference at the end of the week if you've had 12 or 24km warm up/cool down total.

"His other option (which I suggest) is lots of strength training, building muscle mass, losing fat, short fast intervals, etc. That sort of training is fun, is probably healthier, and obviously more physically attractive to the opposite sex. Better than starving yourself and spending 1 hour on the road alone running along at 7:30 pace."

Agree that he should incorporate a lot of this, but he can still do this and moderate milage. Theres no reason for the long runs at 7:30 pace.

formerD1 wrote:

I used to train with Nick back in the day. My 100m speed was about 12.4 (training and in spikes), and he was on par. Wouldn't be surprised if he clocked an 11.11 at some point down the road, since we never took the 100m speed tests that seriously.

Nick Willis is not even close to 11.11, FAT from blocks.

Nice post.

Personally I think that 50 miles a week or less is fairly low mileage especially for an elite athlete who's job it is to run. The athletes I mentioned who are CURRENT; Rudisha, Aman, Amos, Kszscot, Berian, Tuka only Kszscot seems to do more than 50mpw. On Kipketer, he trained with Brother Colm so I'd be surprised if the volume was high.

I am correct in that the fastest 800m guys are speed based with great 400m speed. Souleiman you mentioned doesn't really compete in the 800m (like Farah with the 1500) although I would like to see him get a medal for the 800/1500 guys!

With regards to adding up warm ups and cool downs, a 5-10 minute jog before and after training really adds little to your aerobic conditioning, it is purely to warm the legs. 800 guys in my experience do not run miles before tackling a workout. They do other drills as part of the warmup routine also, strides and skipping etc. Nobody wants to slog a couple miles before trying to sprint 200s all out. Assuming 3 sessions a week, warm up and cool downs will add something like 6-9km. I know 1:47 guys that tend to just jog 2-3 laps before and 3 after at honestly 10min/mile.

Yeah I guess that depends on what we call low milage. Souleiman does have World champs medal in 800 though. Well, all running is running. You have guys do 30min really easy jogs several times a week, I would say that has a benefit, although its just an add on to all the other stuff they do. Hmm, my experience is that its pretty normal with 10-15min easy running before dynamic stretching drills and strides. I do all of them, dont see a reason why not. I'm european though so it might be different in for example speed based programs in american colleges.

Metric Miler wrote:

Personally I think that 50 miles a week or less is fairly low mileage especially for an elite athlete who's job it is to run.

Regarding this...totally agree that it seems many of them could easily do more if they don't have a job. Have you seen Symmonds workouts on that app Sweat? Downloaded it the other day. The guy barely seem to workout, and when he doe its so slow.

I'm fairly sure I don't need to lose weight considering I weigh 116 pounds lol.

Also, I forgot to mention that I'm 14. Do you think my speed and endurance might just increase when I get older?

Op wrote:

Also, I forgot to mention that I'm 14. Do you think my speed and endurance might just increase when I get older?

Oh wow, just 14. Ok. I know someone who ran pretty close to your times at that age. With not much track spcific training though, 1 year. He ended up running 1.50 something and 48.7 in the 400, not sure about the 1500m, not that fast. Your speed and endurance will most surely increase with age and training. You're still fairly young. Its important for you to do have speed, speed endurance and 'normal' endurance in your program. You really should get a coach. Remember to not overdo the hard anaerobic stuff, youre still young and that can wait.