What is wrong with the US Men's Soccer Team?

German Guy 2 wrote:

Kids in the US:

- play basketball in the winter

- soccer in the spring

- baseball in the summer

- football in the fall

Kids in Germany:

- play soccer year round

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but that's how it's like.

Then how do you explain Dirk?!?!?!

You are correct probably that we cannot take an NFL running back at 25 years old and turn him into a midfielder running the pitch. My point is that all these players, like I named, are more gifted athletically and if they played soccer exclusively from childhood on their physical gifts would develop and be honed on a trajectory towards soccer excellence. And playing against equally physically gifted competition would drive them to develop more skill. It is a vicious cycle of survival and excellence. I have played and coached soccer and basketball at decent levels and players develop what they are forced to. No one gets better with lesser competition.

And yes steph curry is not the fastest guy on the NBA court but show me a single US athlete that has spent that much time developing his skill in soccer. You take the 10000 best athletes in any country train them for 10 years and hope to have 500 who stick to it and continue to develop out if that you hope to have 3 great players a year and out of that you hope to have 1-2 generational great players and if you are really fortunate you get a Messi or Ronaldo every few generations. cruyff just passed. The Dutch are still waiting for such a player again but they can hope.

The US is not currently structured to even hope for such a player. Accordingly Klinsman looks abroad.

You have to be joking right? Soccer academies are popping up all over the USA. Compare how many there were 10 years ago vs. now. You guys are massively overreacting to one bad loss, you're like like Al Gore of soccer.

And that's democracy!

German Guy 2 wrote:

Kids in the US:

- play basketball in the winter

- soccer in the spring

- baseball in the summer

- football in the fall

Kids in Germany:

- play soccer year round

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but that's how it's like.

Actually, this is a common misconception. What's different in Europe is that there are a significant number of kids who are in academies at a very young age. But outside of the academies, kids are squarely on a recreational track. They don't have high school or college glory to look forward to, and sports are really just for fun. They often play multiple sports, and they certainly don't practice as frequently as Americans do.

HardLoper wrote:

You have to be joking right? Soccer academies are popping up all over the USA. Compare how many there were 10 years ago vs. now. You guys are massively overreacting to one bad loss, you're like like Al Gore of soccer.

So, this is true (that people are overreacting to one loss. It is also true that there are a lot of youth playing soccer. That has been the case for a long time. It is increasingly true that academies are funneling more of them into serious programs. It is also true that the quality of instruction in those academies is uneven.

In the U.S., unlike somewhere like Belgium, there are some disadvantages. The best players are spread all over the place, instead of concentrated and raising the level by challenging each other. It is also more difficult to make sure the best players get the best instruction.

It takes a lot of time to build a culture that results in better instruction and better development. I'm hopeful that is coming, but we've been saying that for a long time.

Over-reacting to one bad loss?!?

It's been a series of poor results under JK. It wasn't just losing 2-0 to Guatemala, it was the WAY they lost. Absolutely lifeless..poor coaching..poor tactics. You, as a manager, can NOT put players in positions that they are not accustomed to playing and expect positive results. This is even more amplified in a WC qualifier. I don't care whether you are playing a "lesser" side or a more talented side. You just don't do it and expect good things to happen...especially when you probably only had 1 week to really get these players ready for these positions.

Go back to the playoff game vs Mexico for the right to go to the Confed Cup in 2017. USA got vastly outplayed by Mexico and was lucky to get to extra time.

Go back to the Gold Cup. Uninspiring first round (2-0 vs Honduras..1-0 vs Haiti and tied Panama 1-1). Lost in the semis 2-1 to Jamaica. Lost in the 3rd place game 3-2 to Panama.

2014 World Cup Qualifying..Semifinal round in 2013..We were in 3rd place thru 3 games. After winning the 4th game, there was talk of a player mutiny and that several team members openly questioned JK and his methods.

These results alone are enough to get the managers of most nations fired.

You are right though, it takes A LOT OF TIME to build the right culture, instruction and development. Maybe JK would be better in a technical director role at US Soccer...He is NOT right for the head manager job.

Well, it was a bad loss.

I've said I think Klinsmann doesn't have a cohesive vision of tactics and does not use his players in the right position.

I think there are two different issues being conflated. Does the US have current problems with the manager? Yes

Is this an indication of long term doom with the development of Soccer in the US? I don't think so. There are problems and challenges and have been for a long time.

Our expectations for our national team at this time are pretty clear, though. We should be one of the best teams in our region. We should be challenging to advance from our World Cup group and possibly to win a round in the knockouts. Failure to do that is a failure of the current coach (and players).

We should not (at this point) be expecting to be competing to win the World Cup. If we are failing to advance towards that goal, well that is a failure of our long-term development.

Complicating the assessment on both issues is that this is all a small-sample size.

I can't believe people are even talking about this.

Look at the US team. No BUFF players to be seen. Of course they lose. They give up without even fighting.

Now compare that to Christiano Ronaldo and his PHYSIQUE, a greek god of a man. That's why women go to the stadium and cheer the players on.

But Klinsman puts all his focus on agility and body weight exercises. Those players will never be BUFF AND SHREDDED.

And what are the US "academies" producing? College players. What they need to produce is global level professionals- and that is not happening.

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

Is it that the fans have too high of expectations and we just have to accept we are not a soccer powerhouse?

Coaching?

Playing style?

The players?

Personnel decisions?

Youth system?

Yes, you must accept that USA is not a soccer powerhouse. As mentioned earlier, the best athletes play other sports from an early age. Maybe it's not accurate to say Steph Curry would've been all planet at soccer. But there are 100,000 guys trying to make the NBA for every player that actually makes it. Plenty of guys out there had the same coordination as good NBA players and ended up DII basketball players because they were under 5'11" instead of 6'8". That's where USA's transcendent soccer players ended up.

Coaching? USA needs a new coach.

Playing Style? The only one that works with USA's talent level is playing heavy defense with counter attacking. The current coach is deluded if he thinks otherwise. He can't teach Bradley and Altidore ball skills at 20+ that the Europeans were developing from age 4.

The players? USA has never had an international level field player, maybe a keeper. In defense of the coaches, there isn't much to work with.

Personnel decisions? Klinsman is awful at this. He should've been playing the under 25 guys huge minutes in all international matches immediately following the 2014 world cup. There are young guys with more skill than our veterans playing in first and second divisions in Europe that were and are not getting called up. Johnson was the only veteran from 2014 (and maybe Besler, Howard) worth keeping for 2018.

What is there to lose? Anyone playing in MLS during their prime years is not going to feature on a truly competitive WC team. As a fan, I'd rather fail to qualify with the young but promising talent than keep trotting out the same guys who do not have the talent to make a run in 2018.

Youth system? Who knows? I imagine soccer is like any other major sport where it's a numbers game and you just have to wait for the elites to pan out of a huge pool of potential prospects. I doubt USA has the raw number potential prospects going through the proper training to think the national team will be good in 10 years.

This is exactly right. There is almost nothing I can dispute in this entire post.

I can't believe people are even talking about this.

Look at the US team. No BUFF players to be seen. Of course they lose. They give up without even fighting.

Now compare that to Christiano Ronaldo and his PHYSIQUE, a greek god of a man. That's why women go to the stadium and cheer the players on.

But Klinsman puts all his focus on agility and body weight exercises. Those players will never be BUFF AND SHREDDED.

The US is struggling because our player pool does not have the same level of technical quality as the players in other countries. Kids in other countries grow up with a football (soccer ball) at their feet, and they play constantly. By the time they are teenagers, they simply have far more touches than almost all of their American counterparts, and therefore better technical skills.

It is similar to the reason why the depth and quality of Kenyan distance running is better than it is in America. Kids in Kenya grow up running informal mileage at altitude while America kids usually don't. Kenyan kids therefore start their competitive running careers with a lot more aerobic development already done.

I'll also echo what some other posters have already said about America's best athletes playing other sports first. Imagine if the fastest and most coordinated American kids grew up playing soccer from the start, maximizing their time playing the game, both formally and informally. We would be an absolute powerhouse.

I cannot say anything about Klinsman as a personality and motivator of the players, so you may be correct, albeit super dramatic. he might have favorites. He was, however, one of the best players in the world when he played, and on a good team. so he intuitively understands the game. coaching is perhaps another discussion.for what it's worth, in the last world cup, the USA played the best looking (most south american/european tempo) I have seen since I started watching the world cup in 1990 (when i was 8 years old). they looked like they had confidence moving the ball to build up for an offensive push. Patient and controlled, not the long ball bullsh*t we've done so long. it was fun to watch and i didn't feel embarrassed supporting them, because it was futbol.if they don't qualify, it'll set USA soccer back even further

jjjjjjj wrote:

one arrogant German who thinks that the only guys that can play have some German connection. That is the bad old way of managing the U.S., accepting only those with a foreign connection. You do not develop young talent this way. This is a country of 300+ million with enormous #'s of youth soccer players, a high school and college and pro proving ground, and plenty of money. That is the recipe for a great soccer nation. There is one man, Jurgen Klinsmann, that has reversed all the trends with his narrowmindedness and favoritism.

i think there are 4 things:

1. US best athletes are not drawn to soccer

2. US players are not technically as proficient or challenged

3. US players do not grow up in an all or nothing environment where they play soccer all the time and it is their only way out and the family plays it on Thanksgiving when they gather

4. US kids no longer free play any sports, they grow up in organized leagues and academies, when was the last time you saw 10 kids playing a pickup game of any sport ????

Landon Donovan is the pinnacle of our US system and everybody in the US idolized him, Klinsman saw him for what he was, a good international. Nothing more nothing less. Donovan sees himself as something more than that. US soccer is like Donovan and needs to look in the mirror with a reality check, and stop the jingoistic we're #1 nonsense. Klinsman's mistake may be to try to develop a US style of soccer internally that is on a par with other countries with a goal of winning the World Cup in 10 years - it may be that the goal is so unrealistic that everything is being sabotaged: current results, long term development, etc. I am glad that Klinsman is trying though, as the alternative is a never-ending parade of good college players playing kick and run and being athletic in the US then getting crushed by superior athletes with superior technical game at the international level. I would rather lose to Guatemala 2-0 and lose to Germany 5-0 playing the beautiful game with a goal of development than to beat Guatemala 1-0 and eke out a tie with Germany in a friendly. Shoot for the stars and someone you get cut down.

All will (appear) to be right in US Soccer-land when they beat Guatemala 4-0 tonight.

A good read:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

the real question is does the USA with an emphasis on short term results have the determination to stick long term to the plan? the Belgium plan took from 1990 to 2014 to effect.

From article:

There were also problems to contend with inside the federation when results suffered. “I was responsible for all national teams and we played 4-3-3 from one season to another,” Sablon says. “We lost games, people said: ‘Why did we change it?’ I was once a member of the executive committee, it was an advantage – I could convince people at the top of the federation. Some would shoot me of course, they said: ‘You are crazy.’ They said: ‘We play European Championship and you pay more attention to the playing system than to be qualified.’

I said: ‘Yes, you are completely right.’”

"The best athlete are drawn to football, basketball, baseball."

Sorry- that might have been true in the 1960s but it is not true know.

Nowadays:

Kids quit soccer and take up football- because they are too obese to follow the ball around the soccer field.

Kids quit soccer and take up basketball- because they are tall and lack concentration.

Kids quit soccer and take up baseball- because they lack every kind of athleticism and their parents are fat unemployed rednecks (otherwise they would say no to baseball).

Bottom line- is that I never saw a kid that was a soccer "phenom" quit and take up another sport. Fat, deformed losers were the ones that gravitated to football/basketball/baseball. Often with a lot of success. And amnesia about their experience with soccer.

The reason that the US sucks at soccer is because we treat it like football, baseball, basketball.

We take our kids to practice 3 times a week for 6 months and think they are training hard.

How fast would Galan Rupp run if he ran 20 miles/week.

Sure fat and lazy works for football.

But soccer is like swimming or tennis it requires some real work!