Explosive allegation! Swedish paper says Jos Hermens was employing a doctor who wants to legalize EPO

You aren't following along. I am not proving that Hermens was doping Bekele. I am proving that Hermens was involved in coaching him.

you heard it heard first wrote:

jjjjj wrote:

During Bekele's 12:37, Hermens was on the side of the track yelling splits at him and coaching him. That Hermens is involved in doping his athletes would not surprise me at all. His athletes perform beyond what were the limits of very hard training athletes for decades of the modern sport.

What does standing on the backstretch yelling splits have to do with anything?

Salazar does that all the time.

Oh, wait...

don't we already know that?

can you prove Alsal is involved in coach Rupp next please?

just sayin wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics-claims-over-a-doping-network-are-crazy-says-hermens-425356.html

Judge for yourself

A Spanish doping doctor with connections to Fuentes performing homeopathy not remotely believable!

Gebresellasie and Bekele need to be exposed before Athletics can move on from these scandals - cycling has taught us that lesson

try again. cyclists, they moved on to new "supplement techniques" my lovely and very stupid friend. the general public has no learning curve.

McGruff wrote:

I'm not convinced that Haile was doping, but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27). Tergat seems like such a no-nonsense tough dude that it would be tough to fathom his taking PEDs. So maybe we can at least make and educated guess that 12:49/26:27/2:04:55 are clean.

I have the same feeling about Paul Tergat. Not sure how much my "feelings" will count for in the cold light of day, but there was a reason they called Tergat "the gentleman". Also, his lanky stature just never looked "drugged", but I suppose there is no scientific association between appearance and EPO.

True enuf wrote:

Always the approach. Attack the Journalist.

Hermans, Salazar, and Rosa athletes are more drugged than the Chinese women were. That is a fact.

no. the chinese program was full on no holds barred. runners went from very bad to WR on what. 2 years?

they took chicks that could run 33 min for 10k. the hyper responders plus real hard training. cut 4 minutes off in 2 years.

longjack wrote:

just sayin wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics-claims-over-a-doping-network-are-crazy-says-hermens-425356.html

Judge for yourself

A Spanish doping doctor with connections to Fuentes performing homeopathy not remotely believable!

Gebresellasie and Bekele need to be exposed before Athletics can move on from these scandals - cycling has taught us that lesson

try again. cyclists, they moved on to new "supplement techniques" my lovely and very stupid friend. the general public has no learning curve.

They have indeed moved on my stupid friend

However the cycling past has been exposed and we know what happened and what may happen again

The same cannot be said for track in the 90s where there was no epo test

Tergat - hopefully no . BUT DR Rosa - just saying.

True enuf wrote:

There is no such thing as levels of cheating. Cheating is cheating.

And I bet you think driving through a late yellow is the same as blasting a stale red light?

There's the ethical debate and then there's the physiological debate. On the latter, it aint all the same and the affects won't be the same, or equal. One giving a much bigger advantage.

On the ethics you could have a point if indeed a group is intentionally microdosing. However if they are working within all of the parameters of what IS LEGAL, and another group is absolutely knowingly taking banned PEDS, then no, it aint the same at all. What we know about NOP is they may take it to the line of legality. They may even get an advantage over those who don't by doing this, but it wouldn't be cheating, just getting a legal advantage.

That is in the same realm of bad ethics for me as groups taking known banned substances and pretending they are clean.

McGruff wrote:

I'm not convinced that Haile was doping, but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27). Tergat seems like such a no-nonsense tough dude that it would be tough to fathom his taking PEDs. So maybe we can at least make and educated guess that 12:49/26:27/2:04:55 are clean.

I see it exactly the opposite; Tergat was a no-nonsense competitor. He had to know that Haile, Sihane, and the rest of them were on something. There is no way he would just let those guys continue to run away from him without a fight.

Now, how close are his times to the "non doped" records? Certainly a lot closer than Geb and Bek's.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

McGruff wrote:

I'm not convinced that Haile was doping, but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27). Tergat seems like such a no-nonsense tough dude that it would be tough to fathom his taking PEDs. So maybe we can at least make and educated guess that 12:49/26:27/2:04:55 are clean.

I see it exactly the opposite; Tergat was a no-nonsense competitor. He had to know that Haile, Sihane, and the rest of them were on something. There is no way he would just let those guys continue to run away from him without a fight.

Now, how close are his times to the "non doped" records? Certainly a lot closer than Geb and Bek's.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

McGruff wrote:

I'm not convinced that Haile was doping, but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27). Tergat seems like such a no-nonsense tough dude that it would be tough to fathom his taking PEDs. So maybe we can at least make and educated guess that 12:49/26:27/2:04:55 are clean.

I see it exactly the opposite; Tergat was a no-nonsense competitor. He had to know that Haile, Sihane, and the rest of them were on something. There is no way he would just let those guys continue to run away from him without a fight.

Now, how close are his times to the "non doped" records? Certainly a lot closer than Geb and Bek's.

Also, he had to know that Komen, Ngeny and even Kiptanui were on something. WR's were falling every week sometimes in the late 90's. Then the EPO test came out and there was a curtail. Seems people had to learn how to work around the system a little bit. Couldn't just take it 365.

The sport has HAD a huge problem for years.

Welcome to reality.

Read the thread. Why would I say it if it weren't in dispute in the thread?

"but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27)."

Tergat is the one that haunts me. I love the guy and have looked up to him for so long. He seems so humble, polite, and hardworking.

But he won the World Cross champs multiple times during the years of EPO. How can you dominate a dirty era and be clean?

The more time goes by, the more the 90's and early 00's just look filthy. The fact I am having to questing him by association with a dirty era makes me sick.

Nothing to see here wrote:

This reads like a non story backed up by other non stories.

Poor journalism at it's finest.

Move along hasbarat.

A Portuguese coach of multiple Olympians knows for a fact that Tergat was taking EPO given by a Russian doctor. See thread:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4774760&page=2

jjjjj wrote:

During Bekele's 12:37, Hermens was on the side of the track yelling splits at him and coaching him. That Hermens is involved in doping his athletes would not surprise me at all. His athletes perform beyond what were the limits of very hard training athletes for decades of the modern sport.

Hermens has a lot of athletes in his stable, but I have to wonder how much money he has made just of Geb and Bekele alone. Obviously he is incentivized to have them set WRs, CRs and win medals.

not the Ukraine....just UKRAINE