Post-Pre Poster wrote:
kmaclam wrote:I must be getting old. Back in the day, I don't EVER remember questioning whether a track athlete was tempoing OR running all out. It would have been ludicrous to even suggest...
I looked up many of Pre's results. Plenty of his low key meets were run in very slow times. So was he going all out in these races?
BOOM
rojo wrote:
Pangolin wrote:Starting to look like a Georgie Clarke career arc.
Your post inspired me to do some research on Clarke (DOB June 3, 1984).
1997 4:24.96 - age age 12!!!
1998 4:17.53 - age 13.
1999 4:12.51 - age 15 (Came after bday)
2000 4:06.77 - age 15
2001 4:08.91 - age 16
2002 4:09.70 - age 17
2003 4:13.57 - age 19
2004 4:08.60 - age 20
2005 4:06.50 - age 21
So Clarke improved steadily until age 15 when she ran 4:06.77. She then PRd again at age 21 but barely.
Here is Cain's progression (DOB is May 3, 1996)
2011 4:23.59 - Age 15.
2012 4:11.01 - Age 16
2013 4:04.62 - Age 17
2014 4:06.34 - Age 18
2015 4:09.08 - Age 19
Sounds like she could pace me in my slower repeats.
jjjjjj wrote:
The Armory track right there in the Bronx has plenty of open hours...
I haven't been uptown for a few days, but I'm pretty sure the Armory is still in Manhattan.
"I look at structure, tone, and leanness around the ankle and from shoulder to shoulder through the neck line."
What do you mean by this D3_Nuts?
It means he's FOS.
Explanation of Comment Please wrote:
"I look at structure, tone, and leanness around the ankle and from shoulder to shoulder through the neck line."
What do you mean by this D3_Nuts?
She's a has been already
D3_Nuts wrote:
Too many people get caught up in body types or weight. If the focus is running, her running will produce the physiological adaptations it needs. I don't look at body types, I look at structure, tone, and leanness around the ankle and from shoulder to shoulder through the neck line. If those areas are fine, the athlete will be fine. Lean body mass is lean body mass, running economy is running economy, and vo2 kinetics are vo2 kinetics. If you are training right all those things fall into place. Yes, females go through other biological changes which change gait and if Mary is experiencing this she will still be fine, but it may take some time.
Al Sal changed her form and while it may look better in real-time, she actually looked better as a freshman and sophomore if you watch in slow-motion. She's a lot tighter now, where she used to be much more elastic.
As for where to look for leanness...the cheeks. Both sets of them. That will tell you what you need to know.
for some reference, Allie Ostrander just opened indoors in her first ever 5k on the track and closed her last 3k in something just over 9 flat.
optional wrote:
I'm in agreement with ROJO here.
Seems crazy to think that this girl just 2-3 years ago was the next star and next 'hope' for the US women. Now who knows if she'll even still be running at a competitive level in 2020.
This is why I think these young girls should always go to college and go through the college system. I know the fears of over-racing and three seasons per year, etc. But there are good enough coaches out there that are developing some of these young stars for their careers after college.
Jenny went through the college system and came out fine. As did Coburn. As did Rowbury. As did many others that make up our US World and Olympic teams.
Imagine how fast the Kenyans would run if they have had an American college system.
A dumb thread no matter how you slice it. If I were coaching her I'd much rather see a 9:20 in January than a 9:00.
A 9:20 in May, then I'd be worried.
notsogood wrote:
for some reference, Allie Ostrander just opened indoors in her first ever 5k on the track and closed her last 3k in something just over 9 flat.
Google some pics of Allie Ostrander and get back to us.
pre-mc wrote:
Google some pics of Allie Ostrander and get back to us.
What exactly is that supposed to mean?
Solo?
chatham wrote:
pre-mc wrote:Google some pics of Allie Ostrander and get back to us.
What exactly is that supposed to mean?
It means if Mary Cain weighed 95 pounds and hadn't hit puberty yet she would be faster too
malmo wrote:
A dumb thread no matter how you slice it. If I were coaching her I'd much rather see a 9:20 in January than a 9:00.
A 9:20 in May, then I'd be worried.
Why? That makes no sense. Someone with Cain's talent should be trying to peak at like 8:45. So you'd rather see her run 40 seconds slower than what she should be hitting at her peak than 20 seconds slower?
pre-mc wrote:
notsogood wrote:for some reference, Allie Ostrander just opened indoors in her first ever 5k on the track and closed her last 3k in something just over 9 flat.
Google some pics of Allie Ostrander and get back to us.
Yeah, it's completely unreasonable to expect a purportedly world class athlete to ever have to race against competitors that are in some way physical out-liers.
Ghhh wrote:
chatham wrote:What exactly is that supposed to mean?
It means if Mary Cain weighed 95 pounds and hadn't hit puberty yet she would be faster too
Allie is 18 or 19 years old. She's definitely hit puberty by now. She's a great talent and a hard worker, don't insult her.
D1 Nuts wrote:
D3_Nuts wrote:Too many people get caught up in body types or weight. If the focus is running, her running will produce the physiological adaptations it needs. I don't look at body types, I look at structure, tone, and leanness around the ankle and from shoulder to shoulder through the neck line. If those areas are fine, the athlete will be fine. Lean body mass is lean body mass, running economy is running economy, and vo2 kinetics are vo2 kinetics. If you are training right all those things fall into place. Yes, females go through other biological changes which change gait and if Mary is experiencing this she will still be fine, but it may take some time.
Al Sal changed her form and while it may look better in real-time, she actually looked better as a freshman and sophomore if you watch in slow-motion. She's a lot tighter now, where she used to be much more elastic.
As for where to look for leanness...the cheeks. Both sets of them. That will tell you what you need to know.
re: "Al Sal changed her form and while it may look better in real-time, she actually looked better as a freshman and sophomore if you watch in slow-motion. She's a lot tighter now, where she used to be much more elastic."
You are about as wrong as a left shoe on a right foot. Basically what you are saying is all of the NOP form work was a waste, in fact you are saying she had better form when she was 14/15 yo. I bet you also think Mary would have been better off staying with her high school coach.
malmo wrote:
A dumb thread no matter how you slice it. If I were coaching her I'd much rather see a 9:20 in January than a 9:00.
A 9:20 in May, then I'd be worried.
I often agree with you, but this post is absolutely incorrect.
Plain and simple, if Mary's standard is to compete for spot on the Olympic Team, then she needs to be opening up like her contemporaries, which is close to 9 or better. This would be a relatively slow opener for some NCAA athletes.
agc5k wrote:
Allie is 18 or 19 years old. She's definitely hit puberty by now. She's a great talent and a hard worker, don't insult her.
This was last fall:
http://www.adn.com/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_620/public/20Allie.jpg?itok=S4jKZl8vNot insulting- some women are extremely late bloomers and outliers, and this is certainly the case here.
I saw Mary up close in her prime and again last spring- not the same body type/weight as when she ran her eye popping times. Puberty is cruel to women. It's too early to tell what will happen to Allie, or Mary.
