If I think every law abiding citizen has a right to own guns, but the NRA annoys the crap out of me...

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

Exhibit A.

True to form, the Disco Kid cannot make the distinction.

The government lies. We know this. They lied about ObamaCare. Bigtime!

The government targets conservatives. We know because the IRS targeted Tea Party groups. They still are, and no one is stopping them.

The government ALWAYS expands a program beyond it's promised limits. Check Soc Sec, Medicare, Income Tax, etc.

Democrats want to take all guns away from private citizens. We know this as well.

Government is always your worst enemy. If you think that is crazy talk, then you need to realize that it is responsible citizen talk. Our country was founded on the principle that centralized government power presents the biggest danger to the average person, so distrust of government is a healthy sign of good citizenship.

So you want Obama to leave the police, special forces, and FBI alone in spite of 400 years of systematic abuses of human rights. At the same time you want Obama to nit pick away the 2nd Amendment Rights of the American people. NOT.

Bottom line: Obama needs to propose legislation to establish independent review and sunshine of federal authorities, local authorities, and external military personnel. Obama needs to prosecute Dareen Wilson, Daniel Panataleo, and other racist murderers and execute them. Then Obama will have some credibility with the American people.

DiscoGary wrote:

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

True to form, the Disco Kid cannot make the distinction.

The government lies. We know this. They lied about ObamaCare. Bigtime!

The government targets conservatives. We know because the IRS targeted Tea Party groups. They still are, and no one is stopping them.

The government ALWAYS expands a program beyond it's promised limits. Check Soc Sec, Medicare, Income Tax, etc.

Democrats want to take all guns away from private citizens. We know this as well.

Government is always your worst enemy. If you think that is crazy talk, then you need to realize that it is responsible citizen talk. Our country was founded on the principle that centralized government power presents the biggest danger to the average person, so distrust of government is a healthy sign of good citizenship.

Exhibit A.

rcdude wrote:

"I do own a gun, because I hunt, but it stays at my cabin. I don't bring it into my home where it is much more likely to kill a member of family than protect my family"

Oh weak (minded) one, do you really believe that the gun is going to kill someone?

I think the guy was a bit harsh, and overly honest, but he is correct, there are a lot of studies which show the same thing, and here is a quote from just one of them.

"Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home."

So, I believe his point that was that by having a gun at home, studies show it increased the risk of gun death, it doesn't decrease it. I also agree with him that despite all the science and facts in the world, people own guns out of fear, and as such their thoughts are irrational and so there could be a million studies that show people that owning a gun accomplishes the opposite of why they think they need it, but they'll still happily bring that hazard into their home out of fear. I think it is appalling that society has created that fear for profit. It has lead to countless unnecessary deaths all for money. I would never invest in gun companies, it's a path to hell.

Here's the study, not that you'll read it or believe it.

2nd Amendment Rights wrote:

Bottom line: Obama needs to propose legislation to establish independent review and sunshine of federal authorities, local authorities, and external military personnel. Obama needs to prosecute Dareen Wilson, Daniel Panataleo, and other racist murderers and execute them. Then Obama will have some credibility with the American people.

The executive branch does not pass laws...

DiscoGary wrote:

Government is always your worst enemy. If you think that is crazy talk, then you need to realize that it is responsible citizen talk. Our country was founded on the principle that centralized government power presents the biggest danger to the average person, so distrust of government is a healthy sign of good citizenship.

Speaking of our country's founding...

Federalist Paper #1:

"To judge from the conduct of the opposite parties, we shall be led to conclude that they will mutually hope to evince the justness of their opinions, and to increase the number of their converts by the loudness of their declamations and the bitterness of their invectives. An enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the principles of liberty. An over-scrupulous jealousy of danger to the rights of the people, which is more commonly the fault of the head than of the heart, will be represented as mere pretense and artifice, the stale bait for popularity at the expense of the public good. It will be forgotten, on the one hand, that jealousy is the usual concomitant of love, and that the noble enthusiasm of liberty is apt to be infected with a spirit of narrow and illiberal distrust. On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants."

DiscoGary wrote:

Government is always your worst enemy....

Well said .. how's life in Somalia?

thejeff wrote:

2nd Amendment Rights wrote:

Bottom line: Obama needs to propose legislation to establish independent review and sunshine of federal authorities, local authorities, and external military personnel. Obama needs to prosecute Dareen Wilson, Daniel Panataleo, and other racist murderers and execute them. Then Obama will have some credibility with the American people.

The executive branch does not pass laws...

You might've misread what you quoted. The President may propose legislation.

"Much of the legislation dealt with by Congress is drafted at the initiative of the executive branch. The president himself may propose legislation in annual and special messages to Congress including the annual State of the Union address and joint sessions of Congress. If Congress adjourns without acting on the proposals, the president may call a special session."

just say'n.

DiscoGary wrote:

thejeff wrote:

I don't really have an issue with the mentally ill part, since the rec would come from private citizens...

...

Once you realize that liberals think that every conservative is "mentally ill" by definition, then you should understand why we need to fight this. We should always assume that any power granted to the government will be abused. It always has been, and always will be. The government lies about what is trying to do. Always. They can't be trusted.

Paranoid dork.

Signed a gun owner

Shrill morons wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

Once you realize that liberals think that every conservative is "mentally ill" by definition, then you should understand why we need to fight this. We should always assume that any power granted to the government will be abused. It always has been, and always will be. The government lies about what is trying to do. Always. They can't be trusted.

Paranoid dork.

Signed a gun owner

I'll have to defend DiscoGary's point here. Human nature does not change. If you study history there are some (pretty recent, even!) examples of governments persecuting disarmed citizens, putting political opponents (or even just someone who has to go to jail to fill a Stalinist quota) away because they are "criminals" or "mentally ill" according to those in charge.

So it's scary to me that not only do some people apparently not realize this, apparently some people do realize this and don't care. As long as the get the result they want it doesn't matter if it was done unilaterally through executive action.

We are at the point now where to think for oneself in a politically incorrect/unapproved of manner is now considered "hatred." See how vehemently some will attack you if you suggest that a man who wants to be a woman is not a woman. It seems like common sense, but that doesn't stop people from calling it hate. How long before these "unacceptable" beliefs become labelled as discrimination or a hate crime? It's not an awfully long road from delegitimizing diversity of thought to persecuting one's political enemies. You may not like the outcome, but you should at lest respect the constitutional process.

Damned straight, mate! You should check out the government tyranny here in the outback now that guns are damned near impossible to get. I'm hidin' out m'self hoping that they don't get me.

Keep ya guns. It's already too late for us Aussies!

You can't take away our guns nor impede our right to buy ammo and weapons. Think about it. The government is full of racist nut jobs such as Bill Bratton, De Blasio, Ron Emmanuel, Charlie Beck, Jay Nixon, Barack Obama. There's no way in 2016 you want to give up one bullet.

I think not. I own firearms because I like to shoot and hunt, have done so since I was 10 years old. I own handguns because I like to shoot them as well, particularly competition target shooting. I carry one where I have permits, as its my right under the law. Now as far as being "frightened", that I'm not. I'm prudent. I've needed a firearm once, I didn't have one and I was lucky. I no longer place my trust in luck, I was lucky once, likely won't be a second time. Interesting case in CT a few years ago, look up the Petit family online. They needed one, didn't have one, were unlucky. This stuff happens more then you realize. I leave nothing to chance these days. Anyone that leaves a firearm in a cabin, that can be broken into and stolen is part of the problem.

Newsflash..........All firearms can kill people. So can knives, bats, cars, jet liners and golf clubs. Hunting guns include bolt actions (with removable mags) muzzle loaders. Some also hunt with large caliber revolvers. A semi auto 223 or NATO 5.56 isn't really even a decent hunting rifle for deer, its way too underpowered. More for varmints. What "single shot handgun" out there would you recommend as the only handgun for general use by the law abiding public? As far as smoking goes, people can make their own choice, its their health not mine :)

I think you should look at some of the research that Dr. John Lott has published, for an alternate view of things.

rgr that; point taken :-)

Gallup poll: 75% think government is corrupt.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/07/75-percent-americans-think-u-s-government-corrupt/

Why should we grant them more power when an overwhelming majority of the people think they are corrupt?

I call your Federalist Paper, and raise you one Benjamin Franklin.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

If you call, I just have to tell you that I got a whole stack of Jefferson's sitting here that have you covered.