I am completely different from everyone else in my family.

"If the bar for good for you is not raping, robbing, or burning your kids, you've set that bar incredibly low. "

I did not say they were good. I'm saying the OP is over stating how bad they are. He's making it sound like the end of the world. It's not.

"What a whiny jackass the OP is for worrying about his family"

The OP is not worrying about them. He's worrying about himself.

White Sheep wrote:

Also, thank you so much to the people who have shared their experiences and offered some input. It generally feels like I'm all alone in this and nobody understands, so it's very helpful just to know there are others out there who've had to deal with this sort of thing and are getting on okay, have cut ties, etc. I think that's my biggest problem: that I have had them be too much a part of my life (even though I only see any of them once or sometimes twice a year). Even once a year seems to be too often, and I need to reduce the amount of communication I have with them also. It's always negative, and they just bring me down.

Please don't feel alone. I have just recently been through a nearly identical situation as you. Hearing your experiences makes me feel that there are other people going through this also. I have distanced myself from them (my family) because the amount of mental anguish is just not worth it. I have learned that these people will never change and you carry on commit to what you yourself want to achieve in life. Make yourself happy and do what you can to make that happen.

White Sheep wrote:

I also want to say that while my parents did raise me, I am where I am today because I never listened to anything they said and forged my own path. If I had listened to them I would have never accomplished anything. This goes for sports, academics, my career, romantic life, and personal life. I am not exaggerating.

+1 I would have never gotten anywhere in life if I would've listened to my family.

I think you should just drift away from your family. No need to make a big deal about it. There's nothing to be gained from your telling them you don't want to be around them because of the way they behave (notice that I avoided saying "the way they are," because that presumes there's some core there that's dissonant with the way they're behaving).

Just have less and less contact. Some people talk about "family" as if it were something spiritual and mysterious and if you don't make it a big part of your life, there's something wrong with you. That may be true for some people but, as an old guy who's been around and is a professional social scientist, I'd say that it's hardly a principle around which to organize your life, and that there's nothing wrong with stepping away.

I haven't seen my only sister for almost 15 years. After I left the house to go to college, I doubt that I saw my parents more than a year, total, over the next 40. They didn't mind, and neither did I. There was no bad blood, although we didn't agree about many things.

Both my parents left their families of origin when they were young, and although they always kept in touch, they -- like me -- would go years without seeing them.

I know other families like mine. I also know some very close-knit, large ones filled with unhappy toxic people, such as the family you describe.

Some talk therapy can be very helpful here -- not because you're having "mental issues," but because you're asking yourself some hard questions, and a professional is likely well-equipped for helping you answer them.

When you arrive at some answers, don't flinch from them. I think you already know this.

Precious Roy wrote:

My sister still eats Apple Jacks for breakfast (she is 48) has not worked more than one year of her life despite an Ivy league degree (used one child's moderate disability as an opportunity to avoid getting a real job) and will only talk about all the things I did when I was 7 years old whenever the family gets together.

This cracked me up.

The way you deal with this is the realization that you are now the adult and the rest of your family basically are children in a way. You cannot disown them for being annoying. You have to endure it as much as you can stand. You have to rise above the bad behavior and be the adult in the room.

Well said and great advice.

This is one of the best threads I've seen, and I've read quite a few of the posts to my friend. Thanks to all who've contributed.

I'm pretty much in the same situation with my family. They aren't successful, live under a rock, extremely opinionated and will not listen to others ideas. I did not get along with them and they didn't benefit my life in any positive way. So I stopped talking to them. They never really reached out to me in the past and when I stopped communicating with them they didn't bother to hold on to the relationship. Basically, I didn't need them and they didn't need me. I'm actually really happy I did it because it has allowed me to pursue my career and other friendships that they were hindering. Just because you're related to them doesn't mean you need to make them part of your life. That is a social stigma that many people are diligent to hold on to. They are just people. There are plenty of people you have met in life that you don't get along with or interact with anymore (think kids from elementary, middle, or even high school). Family is no different. At one point they were part of your life. Now they are just people you know. Let them go. It's for the best. You don't need them.

You assume you know everything. You're an idiot. I don't sleep there because it isn't always safe. I have had my life threatened by a violent and mentally ill person multiple times. Predicting when this will happen is not so easy. That's not even the point of the thread.

"Don't let it bother you." Okay. Sure. Let me drop a mentally ill alcoholic in your home and let him scream obscenities and threats for hours on end even at 3:00am and then tell you to stop being so whiny when you get tired of it after a few hours. This went on for 6 hours straight on Christmas day until the guy passed out. He then woke up at midnight and started where he left off and continued another 4.5 hours.

You're another dip who doesn't understand. Could things be worse? Sure. They can always be worse. That wasn't even remotely close to the point of this thread. Suggesting one should love and cherish and spend time with their family under all circumstances unless they're raped and have their life threatened is comically simplistic and stupid advice and reveals your lack of exposure to the various kinds of people who exist in the world.

My point was that they're toxic individuals who have a profoundly net negative impact on my life, and that I find it very puzzling that they have so many problems given I share their genes and shared their environment yet don't have 1/100th of the problems they do as well as a completely different mindset about nearly everything. It's just very strange.

blurt wrote:

"If the bar for good for you is not raping, robbing, or burning your kids, you've set that bar incredibly low. "

I did not say they were good. I'm saying the OP is over stating how bad they are. He's making it sound like the end of the world. It's not.

"What a whiny jackass the OP is for worrying about his family"

The OP is not worrying about them. He's worrying about himself.

Incorrect. I'm worrying about them as I feel obligated to help them in some way as people generally do with family members. However, self-preservation is priority #1 in all creatures, so yes, I am worrying about myself also. As already stated, neither of my siblings can even hold down a job bussing tables or washing dishes, and it now appears my sister is going to file bankruptcy as a result since she's thousands of dollars in debt and is unable to even keep a job that pays $8.50/hr despite being 34 years old. Both siblings are likely to end up as street people or institutionalized or something, and my mother is likely to end up being supported by the govt or something since she is barely more capable than my siblings. I have tried to help, but all it ever does is harm me, so there's not much point. Again, I simply find it very strange that I'm doing so well in every area of my life when 3 out of my 4 immediate family members can't even do the bare minimum society requires just to get by.

J.R. wrote:

This is one of the best threads I've seen, and I've read quite a few of the posts to my friend. Thanks to all who've contributed.

Interesting you say that because I posted it once, got 7 great replies, and then the mods deleted it. I swear the mods are TRYING to ruin letsrun. If they'd been around since the start the PNSO thread probably would have gotten deleted. It's terrible.

White Sheep wrote:

[quote]blurt wrote: I'm worrying about them as I feel obligated to help them in some way as people generally do with family members.

You are worrying about people that aren't ever going to give back.

This will be an anchor unless you get some help learning how to make better emotional decisions.

Talking about them in contrast to you is not resolution.

Chances are good you will replicate the most toxic parts in intimate relationships.

TLTR

I am definitely not someone who you can say doesn't understand what its like to live with dysfunctional people. My parents had 8 kids in 10 years and then divorced. The kids were broken up between my dad , mom and an uncle and aunt in a far away state. We were not allowed to contact each other. Then mom died , I was 10. Had to go back with alcoholic abusive dad , four of the five kids with him dropped out of high school. Two never made it past the ninth grade. My oldest brother would steal our stuff and sell it at a pawn shop. Dad died of drinking at 46, I never knew him to work. He definitely had that kill your children's success issue. Once we were put in a foster home because my dad quit buying food for the house and was rarely home. After I was out, the state took away my youngest brother, the only one who was still at home.

I joined the navy on delayed entry program, finished high school and moved out of the town where the majority of my siblings lived. At first, I visited often. They never came to see me. At every visit everyone was drunk and stoned but me. Even if we did things together that I liked to do , which wasn't often, I didn't like the drinking and drugs.

My sister's first birthday party for her out of wedlock son had more booze and drugs than cake and ice-cream. Grown ups horsing around knocked the baby down and could have really hurt him but he landed well. This was the last-straw for me. I told my sister I would never come to her kid's party again until it was clean. I pulled away almost completely, I was about your age, maybe a little younger. She never asked me to come to a party. That one year old now is 30 and has two dui's and can't get work with a full nursing credential.

I am in my 50's now. In a 25 year period I had been to the wake for my youngest brother who shot himself in mouth with a shot gun , and another brother's wedding. I have visited a sister a few times and she has stayed with my family during a couple of holidays. A couple of years ago My wife and I had a big party at our house and I sent invitations. A few brothers came, that was a slow restart of sorts. They were cool , nice enough to me and me to them. I think they were surprised to see that my situation was pretty good .

I never really burned any bridge , even the sister who I scolded for the birthday party always respected me. It was just a choice. It's a hard choice.

Some of what people are posting about trying to stay close actually sounds good to me even though I didn't do it. Just try hard to consider what they are all saying. Don't burn your bridges. It's not necessary for any reason unless they stalk you or something like that. Get of the superiority trip, the shame if there is any. DO this as much as you can without demanding perfection of yourself on it. Don't hate yourself for negative feelings about them either, not that you sound like that type, but maybe in a different mood you might.

We finally had a sibling reunion last summer at a campground. It was the first time all of us were together since my parents divorced in 1968!

I was still the only one that didn't drink constantly, but they are old and can't go as hard as they used to , which is helpful. It was sort of superficial but good over all. I'll never jump in with both feet but it doesn't hurt to stay in touch. They are in fact just people, like me.

Glad I got to see them in a peaceful way before we start dying.

As far as my kids inheriting lots of issues from people they have never known.

It just isn't happening ,holistically speaking all will do better than I have. Their lives are way different than mine. They are doing great. My family wasn't biologically defective, there always was a lot of intelligence and talent going wasted to the dysfunction. I think my parents were just very immature, probably abused themselves, and it spun out of control like a tornado.

Pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Chances are good you will replicate the most toxic parts in intimate relationships.

Doubtful. While I definitely have my emotional hangups and do feel like my family mess has affected my ability to form healthy relationships, it has not had a destroyed my ability for forming and maintain relationships, and I have not replicated any of the most toxic parts in any relationships. I am not perfect, especially not at relationships (who is), but my relationships have not ended due to me being toxic in any way. I have actually gone very much the other way specifically because I know how horrible it is to be around someone who is vile, bitter, negative, critical, etc. My biggest problem is that I've been so emotionally drained from my family and been held back so much by them that I have a hard time providing SOs with the amount of time and attention they want, but that's characteristic of a lot of very driven people. My long term goals are more important than serious relationships right now. Most girls don't understand that sort of mentality. Some do though.

Thank you for the post.

The only thing I think might separate my situation from yours is profound mental illness with my siblings that seems to only progress with time. There's really no chance that the three of us will ever be able to sit in a circle and have it resemble anything remotely normal or civil due to the mental illness. Even stone cold sober their minds aren't right, and their behavior varies between completely out of control to very annoying.

I do appreciate you sharing your story regardless and am glad you broke free. It's also very encouraging to know your kids are okay. For the longest time I thought I would never have kids because I didn't want to risk them being effed up like my siblings and mother. It's still possible I suppose, but probably unlikely.

White Sheep,

I don't really understand the purpose behind your thread. You are a young man from a not good situation so I'm giving you a bit a latitude on this. The question that you asked a couple times which ostensibly is your purpose for the thread is, "Why am I so different from the rest of my family whose members are so dysfunctional?"

Do you think that there is an answer to that question? And, is that your purpose for your thread?

You don't seem to be looking for advice and how to handle this situation. You said you don't want to vent. So what is you purpose.

I keep thinking , if they really are mentally ill, that's more of a reason not to abandon them.

BTW, Have you ever seen the movie, "What's Eating GIlbert Grape".

It might have some meaning for you.

White Sheep wrote:

Pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Chances are good you will replicate the most toxic parts in intimate relationships.

Doubtful.... My long term goals are more important than serious relationships right now. Most girls don't understand that sort of mentality. Some do though.

You don't know what an intimate relationship is. Judging by your posts, you think you know. But, you don't.

Pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

White Sheep wrote:

Doubtful.... My long term goals are more important than serious relationships right now. Most girls don't understand that sort of mentality. Some do though.

You don't know what an intimate relationship is. Judging by your posts, you think you know. But, you don't.

He's a young man that doesn't get it. For an intelligent guy that was a very sexist thing to write. Seriously, in some ways he sounds like his dad. Not open to other opinions, focused on work over relationships.