Where does D3 champ Ian Lamere finish in the D1 race?

I remember Danny Henderson I believe. I think he ran for the University of Chicago Track Club in the 198os as a post collegiate runner. Ran mid 13s for 5000 m I heard.

There is still a lot of talent outside of D1. Not everyone wants to go to big schools even if they could get a full ride, there is undiscovered foreign talent who feel fortunate to get accepted to a US university even if it isn't D1, and some runners develop late after hs or started running late in their teens. Carius who coached North Central College in Naperville used to boast that he could take unknown hs runners who could not break 10 minutes and turn them into sub 9 minute two milers.

Neely Spence who ran for D2 Shippensburg is another example. She definitely is one of our better elite woman runners. It probably helps to be coached by your father when he is a former Olympian though.

unlike most of you I run in D1 wrote:

I promise you he would not have finished in the top 100 of the D1 race. Consider this, Matthew Maton and Jim Rosa (among other VERY talented runners) BARELY finished under 100th place.

It is easier to run by yourself upfront of the D3 race, getting off the line and easily getting up front. If he ran in the D1 race, he would get buried in the first 400 meters and would be overwhelmed by the mass of bodies surrounding him at all times during the race.

Trust me, if you have run in a D1 XC championships you will understand this, this D3 kid would get utterly smoked. D1 is a completely different beast. You cannot argue with it until you've been there.

Look, I don't disagree with you that D1 is very deep, and a different beast from D3. But this tradition used to exist, and D3 champions routinely were D1 All-Americans, TWO DAYS after their earlier championship race. LaMere beat a relatively good D3 field, especially with top-end talent, by 40 seconds. He beat people who beat D1 All-Americans. He beat people who will break 29 in the 10k and 14 in the 5k, and beat them by 300 meters. Yes, D3 is weaker than D1, but don't assume that D3 champions are necessarily weaker than D1 All-Americans.

dnf. D1 is a 10k

unlike most of you I run in D1 wrote:

Trust me, if you have run in a D1 XC championships you will understand this, this D3 kid would get utterly smoked. D1 is a completely different beast. You cannot argue with it until you've been there.

1.5/10 for trying

Here is some historical data from

1974-81. Add '86 (Arnie Schrader 11th) mentioned above. And remember, these runners had just run their championship 2 days before DIs. Don't know when they stopped inviting the leaders from DIII and DII, sometime in the 90s?

'74 - Dave Holler, Rochester, 19th; Dave Teague Hamline 74th

'75 - Joel Jamisson, Occidental, 31st

'76 - Dale Kramer, Carleton, 70th

'77 - Kramer, 46th (ahead of Chris Fox, Larry Cuzzort, Marty Froelick, Ralph Serna, Matt Centrowitz, Jim Eicken, Hillary Tuwei, Pete Pfitzinger, Randy Jackson)

'78 - Henderson 10th

'79 - Paul Mausling, McCalaster 92nd

'80 - Mark Conover 23rd, Danny Grimes 34 both from Humbolt St. (which was dropping down from DII)

'81 - Conover 40th, Mark Walley Principia 50th; Mike Axinn, U Chicago 74th.

Joe Rosa was around 96th, while Jim Rosa was top ten.

D3 pu$$y wrote:

Top 30?

3rd through 10th, He'd have to run over 6 minute per mile pace not to go sub 30 the other day.

It's not a short course, but it wasn't a fast course like it can be in better conditions.

unlike most of you I run in D1 wrote:

I promise you he would not have finished in the top 100 of the D1 race. Consider this, Matthew Maton and Jim Rosa (among other VERY talented runners) BARELY finished under 100th place.

It is easier to run by yourself upfront of the D3 race, getting off the line and easily getting up front. If he ran in the D1 race, he would get buried in the first 400 meters and would be overwhelmed by the mass of bodies surrounding him at all times during the race.

Trust me, if you have run in a D1 XC championships you will understand this, this D3 kid would get utterly smoked. D1 is a completely different beast. You cannot argue with it until you've been there.

You are wrong on so many levels here...

We know DI is crazy deep and goes out lots harder than DIII, however Lamere is a DI guy running in DIII. Who cares if he would not have been at the front in the DI race, his fitness is so good that he would have worked his way into top 50 (at the minimum) and competed with all the great guys in the field. He also soloed the 2335, so maybe some competition would help him go faster ya think??? And, the course was not fast Saturday. Yes, it's the flattest course I've ever run but it was soft and had sloshy spots especially around some bends.

Finally, your argument about Rosa finishing back near 90-100 is also poor because he likely just had a bad day. This is what cross country is all about---competing hard on that day and seeing how well you can finish. Obviously Rosa is an AA talent but that's the way it goes sometimes. Lamere just killed 3 consecutive races making it look easy---he's an animal. And I agree with previous posters arguing lamere would be even better at 10k because he is a pure distance guy. He maintains pace and fights through pain better than most.

3rd through 10th, He'd have to run over 6 minute per mile pace not to go sub 30 the other day.

It's not a short course, but it wasn't a fast course like it can be in better conditions.[/quote]

LaMere had 6:25 over 2K to break 30:00 for 10K as i think this is what you are saying..

which is slower than 5:05 pace...At any rate, I think he would have been top 50 in D1 certainly...He's a marathoner in the making..Like a very very good marathoner in the making. He's alot like Bill Rodgers, He can run at a ridiculously high % of his VO2 and not go past threshold. Freak of nature who can't break 58 in the quarter. Dead serious

Yeah--look what happened to Aislin Cuffe in the woman's race. She was a serious top 5 contender but tanked in 117th place. There are few guarantees in this sport unless your name happens to be Edward Cheserek.

It is curious that D3 only runs 8 k--not sure why they don't run 10 k like the other divisions. This would eliminate the need to extrapolate across distances when comparing performances.

I'm the opposite. I wish the other divisions ran 8k. I think the races would be more competitive, giving middle distance guys more of a shot, and I think people would be more willing to make assertive moves, like the kid at D-1 Pre-Nationals.

You make a good point. Many previous D 3 champs also had a strong middle distance track pedigrees--probably more so than the other divisions. For a while, they were running both short and long cross country races at the words though I am not sure if they still do.

Won by 40 seconds yesterday; arguably the best cross runner in D3 history.

I'm a fan of D3, but I'd only give him top 100 for two reasons:

1. There were a lot of really good D1 guys from 100 - 200 or higher. Example: Sam Wharton was 207th (won NXN I think; AA last year). Christian Alvarado was 180th (won NBON mile).

2. His track times are good for D3; OK for D1. He's a 14:22 / 29:45 5K / 10K guy. Respectable for D1, but his 10K time (which is more impressive than his 5K time) would put him about 96th in D1 last year.

Could he have been a D1 AA? Maybe. He could have just as easily finished 210th.

He probably also runs mega mileage (100 + per week) like Cam Levins.

anyone wrote:

2. His track times are good for D3; OK for D1. He's a 14:22 / 29:45 5K / 10K guy. Respectable for D1, but his 10K time (which is more impressive than his 5K time) would put him about 96th in D1 last year.

Hopefully he gets the chance to get in to some fast track races this spring (I think the way his fall has unfolded he's going to take some serious chunks off those PRs).

My worry is the Platteville doesn't have a huge budget and he'll be stuck racing in the midwest instead of getting into something super fast on the west or east coasts.

anyone wrote:

1. There were a lot of really good D1 guys from 100 - 200 or higher. Example: Sam Wharton was 207th (won NXN I think; AA last year). Christian Alvarado was 180th (won NBON mile).

2. His track times are good for D3; OK for D1. He's a 14:22 / 29:45 5K / 10K guy. Respectable for D1, but his 10K time (which is more impressive than his 5K time) would put him about 96th in D1 last year.

Could he have been a D1 AA? Maybe. He could have just as easily finished 210th.

1. Good guys have bad races... see the last line you wrote. There's probably 50 or 60 guys who could be interchangeable between 25-35th place.

2. His track times were as a Sophmore never really getting into meet built for fast times until the Hillsdale 10k.

He went through 5k about 13 seconds off his PR on squid ground on his way to the title... The midwest D3 guys never really get into barn burning track races (east coast indoor or west coast outdoor), but do very well in championship racing.

Just take his race at Brissmann meet earlier in the year...

He blasted Ian Barnett who took 65th at NCAA's this year. Beat him by 26 seconds. It's not that I think you're under estimating a D3 guy, I think your way over estimating the talent of d1 from about 25 - 50.

Pretty sure I looked at the wrong results there for nationals... I still do not think it changes the assessment that while he could very well do poor, he could also very well be in the top 25