Help us: Anyone able to get us a measuring wheel in Beijing by the end of the day tonight? We need to measure the track.

A measuring wheel is not terribly likely to be very accurate compared with the electro-optical surveying methods actually for this sort thing these days.

If you run 60s laps you will cover exactly 1 meter in 0.15s, or 4m in 0.6s. You don't need anything sophisticated to measure deviations of this scale.

The track is surely not 4 meter longer than normal though.

There were questions about the track and runway surfaces at the Tokyo WC.

Remember the 29 foot LJ's.

not 42 wrote:

If you run 60s laps you will cover exactly 1 meter in 0.15s, or 4m in 0.6s. You don't need anything sophisticated to measure deviations of this scale.

The track is surely not 4 meter shorter than normal though.

Fixed myself.

This is when I wish you guys stayed in shape. You could just run a workout and judge for yourself. Have Gault run 6 x 400m and see what he comes up with, effort-wise, and pace-wise. If you are fit, you will know if the track is short.

I eat my morning cereal with turtle blood. You better believe the track gets shorter in my POV.

AKMarmoset wrote:

Yeah, if their credibility is immutable...

"immutable"?

Egun wrote:

Katz.

These Technical Officials are such hard ons that they would give their lives to catch a short track ...

I have had to retain surveyors for american track records, and they are able to survey a 400m track down to millimeters.

Simply cannot set a record without a post hoc survey if the Tech guys have any questions...

Nor would a track be accepted get a world championship if it were short ...

Its another play on the brojo 'doper driver engine' that engages more mau clicks ...

So cut it out .

This just shows what a bunch of idiots the brojos are...

I started reading this thread and couldn\'t stop laughing. Some of you have way too much time on your hands.

I was in Beijing (returned on Friday due to other obligations) and can attest that the track is accurate. Yes, people were joking that it was short - something that always happens when you have fast times. For the most part the conditions were excellent for the sprinters and horizontal jumpers. The Mondo surface was new and even Claye mentioned that it was very fast.

IAAF Certified Tracks are measured with EDM\'s and verified by independent surveyors. While there is no guarantee that mistakes can\'t happen, there are simple ways to check for the accuracy of many of the marks.

The Bird\'s Nest track is a standard IAAF track with a radius of 36.5m. Knowing this it would be easy to measure the diameter (finish line straight across to the 800m breakline - assuming the finish is on the tangent - which it is.

Then all you would need to do is measure from the break line to the 200m start. You could also measure from the finish line back to the breakline (point) for the 5000m. This would give you all the information you would need to calculate the distance of one lap in lane 1.

The 400m starts would have to be correct otherwise the runners would be crashing into the hurdles, same for the 110\'s and 100h.

The first day I arrived and did a walk around the track and all the marks seemed to be in the correct positions. I realize this is very inaccurate but there are several marks that must be oriented near each other - for example: the 400m hurdle marks must be in the same exact position as the beginning of the lat 4 x 100 exchange zone.

I also assisted with a measurement of the start of the walks which was just past the last hurdle of the 110. That measurement verified the placement of the last hurdle which confirms all the others.

David Katz

Must be autocorrect.

D.Katz wrote:

The Mondo surface was new and even Claye mentioned that it was very fast.

Thanks for the first-hand info. Out of curiosity, what characteristics make a surface "fast." Is it just the hardness? Or are there other features that matter (e.g. like the "tuned" indoor track at Harvard)?

If maximum hardness is specified by the IAAF, why is this track faster than previous ones?

Thanks, David!

THIS IS EXCELLENT AND YOU'RE THE MAN for the job to remeasure the track! My coach who was a very smart guy measured a course with a wheel in triplicate and it was still wrong due to subtle error with the wheel. Check it because I would bet that the track is a bit short. But not by much. Its just a super fast track. Could be off by 40 cm. or some such...

In the loop wrote:

I think the [400m] hurdles would give you clues. Their steps are pretty precise, and if you shorted the track distances I'd think you'd see a ton of hurdles being struck down.

Super Moronic on Letsrun.com....

runtime wrote:

A measuring wheel is not the right tool. Not even close. It's ridiculous to suggest it. It's not even acceptable for road courses.

What's next, suggesting using somebody's Garmin?

You'd need a trained surveyor with proper equipment.

If it matters, I've measured dozens of road courses for certification, and have spent time as a land surveyor.

David Katz will no doubt come on here and set everybody straight.

You know Don's right when he even suggests that Katz will back him. :)

LetsRun.com wrote:

Or are there any math gurus that can figure out how to measure it using pictures or something?

Someone get us a wheel. I'll pay someone to measure the track accurately before the end of worlds and video it.

Please email us at

letsrun@letsrun.com

Maybe you could Garmin it too!! Or just pace it out, or IDK, maybe flip a ruler over 1200 times. Have you ever heard of a laser transit? Just asking.

RancidCupNoodle wrote:

I ran a race once in China, advertised as a 5km, but my Chinese friend found out (they knew) it was 5.6 km. Times added up (19:30) as I would have expected to run around 17:20-30. After the race they insisted it was 5km...

I ran a race once in the United States, advertised as a 10k, but my American friend found out they had measured it carefully--with a car. In California. In Palo Alto. My running friend and I looked at each other at the mile mark, and it only got further off from there. Amazing splits and final times. So this is not limited to China. And that's but one of many an amusing measurement story I am sure we all could tell. Where? Worldwide.

Sounds like a "TRACKGATE" scene here. Ted Wells and Roger G. need to be consulted. Some one must have some "almost knowledge" on the track pin the tracks length.